|
View Poll Results: Doom or Grind on A500? | |||
Doom | 12 | 19.35% | |
Grind | 50 | 80.65% | |
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll |
|
Thread Tools |
14 June 2024, 21:01 | #21 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Bicester
Posts: 2,022
|
Grind.
Obviously because it is something new. but when it is released (and providing it has easy enough tooling) anyone that wants 'DOOM' levels for the engine could put in the work, no? |
14 June 2024, 21:06 | #22 |
Alien Bleed
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: UK
Posts: 4,480
|
"Well, these results are a surprise!", said noone ever.
As far as I can tell, GRIND doesn't have varying height floors simply because the feature is incomplete/buggy. It does have varying height ceilings/open spaces. Since the floors aren't textured, there are some potential benefits to having a fixed level. As for DOOM levels in the engine on an A500, people are forgetting the obvious fact that DOOM required around 4MB of RAM. A standard A500 isn't going to cut it, no matter how fast the engine is. |
14 June 2024, 21:12 | #23 |
Alien Bleed
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: UK
Posts: 4,480
|
I'd like to see Alien Breed 3D on a standard A500...
|
14 June 2024, 21:13 | #24 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Bicester
Posts: 2,022
|
that's a fair comment.
when people say they want DOOM on the A500 do they mean an original 512k, kickstart 1.2 machine? |
14 June 2024, 21:14 | #25 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Bicester
Posts: 2,022
|
now that would be cool
[ Show youtube player ] AB3D (demo) on an expanded A600 Last edited by abu_the_monkey; 14 June 2024 at 21:36. |
14 June 2024, 21:46 | #26 |
Alien Bleed
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: UK
Posts: 4,480
|
|
14 June 2024, 22:28 | #27 | |
Martin Shaw
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Scotland
Posts: 469
|
Quote:
|
|
14 June 2024, 22:48 | #28 |
Alien Bleed
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: UK
Posts: 4,480
|
Floors can easily become invisible unless they are shaded differently and/or walls are carefully textured to make the bottoms obvious.
As I said, I'm pretty sure there is support for varying floor heights in the engine but it's not complete/has bugs. As for being a maze, well, that's all 2.5D games pretty much |
14 June 2024, 22:49 | #29 |
Zone Friend
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kent
Age: 51
Posts: 1,081
|
yeah I would rather suspect so but what do I know. It would be more reasonable to expect that running at a more acceptable rate on A1200 of course but maybe there's some last miracle we will witness from the engine that does allow the A500 just a little more
|
15 June 2024, 00:35 | #30 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Marseille / France
Posts: 1,518
|
Quote:
You can play Doom on an A500, you just need the recquired hardware. (Like every Doom versions) More ram and a better CPU. The Amiga is a computer designed to be expanded from the start. |
|
15 June 2024, 03:05 | #31 | ||
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Novi Sad, Serbia
Posts: 1,700
|
Quote:
Quote:
Here is where KK showcase Dread/Grind engine capable of variable heights, and it shouldn't affect performance on A500 in any drastic way. Watch from 5:55 [ Show youtube player ] As for "incomplete/buggy"... from what I remember, KK mentioned once that it's implemented pretty nicely, but only issues was implementing enemies (as 2D images) when he used variable heights, and that he had few ideas how to solve it. Doom on A500? On video above, I think it's pretty much max we can expect, and considering hardware limits, I think it's pretty damn amazing! (anyone show me similar Doom demo on 286, and with even more then 7Mhz) |
||
15 June 2024, 03:31 | #32 |
Pixelglass/Reimagine
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Athens
Posts: 1,057
|
Some answers in regards to variable heights:
As @Karlos mentioned, the Dread engine (which Grind uses) already has the ability for variable height floors. There are 2 renderer versions available right now: V1) This is the current stable renderer used. It does not support variable height floors but does support variable walls heights already (albeit in a somewhat limited fashion). V2) This has full variable height floor and walls support. But the renderer is incomplete as it does not support yet proper objects clipping and interactivity. Also it does not enjoy the amount of finetuning and optimization that was put into V1. In regards to performance (and as we have confirmed from various test) V2 while completely unoptimized is still playable on a500. But with worse performance than V1, even in completely flat areas and (of course) without containing any objects yet. According to KK though (Dread engine's original coder) that could very well change if the renderer is properly optimized like V1, reaching similar performance numbers. It is worth noting also that the 'variable floors' feature is not that much of a big contributing factor to performance per se. I.e. 2 rooms with the same amount of sectors but one flat and the other with different elevations should perform similarly. Does that means a Doom port would be doable and playable on a500 f.e. using this engine? With some modifications (and further concessions) probably yes (granted V2 would be completed and performing similarly to V1). Simplifications to the maps, enemy count and geometry would also have to be made to keep things playable (this has been the case with many other Doom ports to other systems anyhow). Probably the biggest challenge here would be converting the gfx cause the slope from 256 colors to 16 is pretty steep indeed. So overall doable (albeit with a lot of asterisks). Perhaps some day |
15 June 2024, 03:56 | #33 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2023
Location: essex
Posts: 510
|
Dread on A500 looks to be running at twice the framerate of Grind on A500. 10fps for a Doom clone is going to play like ass.
|
15 June 2024, 06:18 | #34 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Ur, Atlantis
Posts: 2,071
|
Quote:
I'll always take an original Amiga game over a port, even if the game is 3D Pong. |
|
15 June 2024, 09:54 | #35 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2022
Location: Eastbourne
Posts: 1,089
|
Did anybody complain about 10fps for a 3D game back in the day, did it really ruin the feeling of immersion?
If you'd asked this question in 1994 I'd've said Doom, because the name had such cachet. Today though, I'd say Grind, largely because it won't be possibly to perfectly port Doom's gameplay to the A500, and we can all play it through a PC now, so I think I'd rather see something original that's been designed around the A500's capabilities. |
15 June 2024, 11:49 | #36 |
Zone Friend
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kent
Age: 51
Posts: 1,081
|
yeah that would be more than acceptable considering and just about the most astonishing achievement on the A500. People maybe forget that games are often still playable at something like 5 frames. Not ideal or enjoyable maybe even for some but still playable in the actual sense and to see the engine doing this as a finished product would be remarkable. Adding just a little extra acceleration if you wanted. It really would be quite something
|
15 June 2024, 12:18 | #37 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: England
Posts: 1,272
|
remember doom wasnt exactly full quality/full speed for most pc users when it first came out, yeah it became much better when better hardware came out but i recall my uncle played it and he couldnt run even 1:1 pixel/resolution mode decently, he had to F5 that shit to get it running better, he also needed more ram in the end.
Considering the a500 hardware grind is targeted to, its sheer witchcraft what has been done and continues to be done, and best of all, its not a straight port you can play on anything/everything. |
15 June 2024, 12:35 | #38 |
Computer Nerd
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rotterdam/Netherlands
Age: 48
Posts: 3,849
|
|
15 June 2024, 12:42 | #39 |
HOL/FTP busy bee
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Germany
Age: 46
Posts: 32,014
|
|
15 June 2024, 13:35 | #40 |
Zone Friend
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kent
Age: 51
Posts: 1,081
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
Thread Tools | |
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
GRIND : a Doom-like, first person shooter for a500! | Tsak | News | 230 | 17 June 2024 19:16 |
Grind : engine coder needed! | Tsak | Coders. General | 4 | 11 December 2023 23:42 |
GRIND : choose the HUD design you like! | Tsak | project.Amiga Game Factory | 22 | 11 October 2023 10:00 |
Best Doom-clone on vanilla A500? | eXeler0 | Retrogaming General Discussion | 76 | 29 July 2016 12:15 |
Possible to port Alien Breed 3D maps to Doom? (I know AB3D has features Doom can't) | dex | Coders. General | 2 | 21 January 2012 22:06 |
|
|