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#21 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: Venus
Posts: 177
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Quote:
The atari 8 bits have more vivid colors better resolution and gfx than any other competitor and about the sound, you could say that it is tied with the c64 it happens the C64 have by far better games and a much larger catalog of games |
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#22 |
Puttymoon inhabitant
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I still consider C64 as the best MUSIC computer of all times. No matter if the game was good or bad, I used to load a lot of them only for their tunes.
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#23 |
Missile Command Champion
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Germany
Age: 52
Posts: 12,455
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Comparing the Pokey with the SID is a bit ridiculous.
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#24 |
J.M.D - Bedroom Musician
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: los angeles,ca
Posts: 3,590
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However the pokey is doing very interesting stuff when well squeezed
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#25 |
Ex nihilo nihil
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: CH
Posts: 4,995
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#26 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 3,436
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#27 |
Ex nihilo nihil
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: CH
Posts: 4,995
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#28 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: >
Posts: 2,941
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The more competition the better for consumers, so it was good both the C64 and ZX Spectrum existed.
In the UK in 1983 when the C64 launched at £300+vat (£345) sales were slow but steady, and a few months later Sir Clive reduced the Spectrum price to £129, it was already the number 1 8bit micro in the UK from the year before, he saw no thread from the C64’s relative high price. Just 12 months after launch, Commodore had to react to the increasing dominating market share Sinclair was getting by reducing the C64 to £199incVAT. Had it not been for the ZX Spectrum dominating the sector i have no doubt the price would have stayed much higher and the C64 userbase alot lower. So it doesn’t matter if you like either Sinclair or Commodore better, both helped drive the 8-bit market to the greatness of what it became. |
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#29 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Scunthorpe/United Kingdom
Posts: 2,078
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Back in the day when I was like 12, you'd see screenshots of C64 games and go "aw yeah that looks amazing" and others would reply "oh you should see it on Atari 8 Bit" and although nobody ever owned one, it was understood that it was superior.
I had Sinclairs FWIW. ZX80/81/Spectrum/+/+2/2a before finally caving and buying my stepdad's A1000 off him as part of the divorce between him and my mum. We had commodores in the house (he was a technophile) but the Speccy was my first love. |
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#30 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Ur, Atlantis
Posts: 2,028
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Quote:
I did own C64 bitd, but I don't love it as much as I do ZX Spectrum & Amiga. It's a long story but after upgrading from the ZX after a long beg/borrow/steal battle I was somewhat disappointed by the colour palette, a lot of low-res, games via tape deck being PITA, and started another epic beg/borrow/steal campaing to get an Amiga. But, despite that, there was of course a reason I wanted C64 in the first place, and that was the "big" games. Spectrum has a huge library full of amazing titles, but the reality was that C64 had The Best Game Ever - Pirates!, plus the likes of Pool Of Radiance et al, Maniac Mansion, Bard's Tale, Defender Of The Crown, Ultimas, The Last Ninja, and heaps of other massive "computer game" style releases from that era (some of which you did mention already, like Wasteland), which were mostly impossible to reproduce on the humble 48K ZX or only available on bigger, more expensive machines, like Apple II. Many of these trailblazing games (eg Pirates! or Maniac Mansion) have originated on C64, so saying that it lacked in this department is simply a no-no. All in all, if there was only one machine I could take to a desert island, the heart would say "ZX Spectrum" but the brain "C64", and it would be a right choice. Quote:
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#31 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: germany
Posts: 439
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Quote:
https://c64gfx.com/release/102354 https://c64gfx.com/release/101406 https://c64gfx.com/release/220164 https://c64gfx.com/release/124002 Also, not all Atari 8-bit models had separate chroma/luma outputs, degrading image quality. *Cough* that's a bit of a stretch, really. Pokey can just do simple 1-bit square waves; it has 4 voices compared to the SID's 3 voices, but if you want usable frequency control, you lose half of them. The SID has 12-bit waveforms, ADSR envelope generators with 8-bit volume control, a state variable analog filter that gives you high/low/bandpass with variable filter frequency and resonance (albeit variance between chips is quite high for the older 6581 SID, restricting the filter's usefulness), some extra goodies like hardsync and ring modulation. It's pretty close to a typical analog synth of that time like the Minimoog. I think the C64 was the first home computer (or even home gaming system) were game publishers really started to pay attention to music. So in that aspect it helped the games industry to evolve. Last edited by chb; 15 April 2024 at 11:22. |
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#32 | |
Zone Friend
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kent
Age: 51
Posts: 1,078
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Quote:
Colours are also another thing that gets mentioned a lot in the same way Amstrad owners claim the same thing and while I'm in total agreeance in one sense, the C64 has what many might refer to as realistic tones. More muted to some but also less garish for others. The C64 generally has a more realistic look to it's games in terms of how the tones better resemble the actual colours we see in life and while that's maybe not as vivid or pretty, it's closer and therefore better I'm willing to bet for most people. There's certainly a nice jump in 3d performance on Atari though enough that it trounces C64? not really Awesome machine though and certainly better in a couple of ways but not to the point that it could replicate C64's best I would say. Similarly a game written for what Atari does best would likely be a bit bland on the C64 as the Atari's palette is indeed very striking too |
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#33 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Marseille / France
Posts: 1,508
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Quote:
I'll add SimCity to that list Didn't had a C64 back then but I find surprising to thinks it didn't had innovating games. |
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#34 |
Amigaholic
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 4,759
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I still have 2 x C64 and loads of disk drives and disks, just found the C64 better because it had software on disk which did make loading less painfull than tape hence I used my C64 more than my spectrum when I was a kid, no R Tape Loading errors with a disk
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#35 | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2023
Location: essex
Posts: 475
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Quote:
The only advantage the Atari had was more colours in palette (first 128 for CTIA 400/800 then later 256 but useless if you only have 2 per scanline for game engines) and a faster CPU (which you need for software sprites anyway). Don't confuse spastic developments on C64 with hardware potential. Law of the West, Enforcer- Full Metal Blaster or Nobby the Aardvark on any other micro computer of that generation is not possible in that quality without going to Amiga 1000 levels of tech. Like it or lump it the C64 was the best compromise and it is the best sound chip for any 8bit system.....unless you are deaf/a fanboy. And if you want to throw all of the hardware into display of a static image using sprite multiplexing and 8kb hi res bitmap mode you get pretty much Atari ST quality and for photographic style images the C64 palette on a real TV not shitty vice emu palette bullshit is what photoshop would come up with converting a 24bit photograph scan to 16 colours. It's the same way I made 32 colour per scanline 640x512 OCS custom screen mode for a graphic adventure game engine. If you don't know you don't know ![]() The fanboys can continue now, the facts have been put out there by experts on both sides many times, nobody's mind will be changed and maybe as an owner's experience the Atari 800 was nicer but technically incorrect comments about better hardware overall, compromises included, can easily be dismissed. That doesn't mean more than half the 10000 64 games aren't spastic colour ram devoid rubbish that don't have galway/hubbard/whittaker amazing soundtracks but hey there are only 5 NES games worth a crap out of 750 made so still plenty to keep you busy. to put the record straight, Rescue on Fractulus is the most amazing 8bit game of all time for me and I almost bought an 800XL just for that one game in 1985 even though I had a C64 for 2 years. The Amstrad and Spectrum ports are same/worse than the acceptable C64 port, 'better' owners experience though is a subjective dead end argument, you like what you like. But from a hardware point of view the C64 was cheap enough and the right compromises were made. So let's just actually try to get on as a 'retro community' for once and enjoy this awesome fusion of cutting edge AI visuals and lovely electronica style chiptune audio. [ Show youtube player ] |
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#36 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Italy
Posts: 1,945
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the machine i grew up with
such a wide games library, maybe in another life i'll reach to play everything i like how the games have been genre ordered in Tosec, really there is a lot more than just platform Cinemaware included ![]() |
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#37 | ||
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: PL?
Posts: 2,872
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Quote:
C64 is simply unable to deliver something even close to examples provided here: https://github.com/ilmenit/RastaConverter Quote:
https://forums.atariage.com/topic/24...for-8-bit-pcm/ https://forums.atariage.com/topic/27...ujiconvert-01/ |
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#38 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Marseille / France
Posts: 1,508
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I didn't notice that there wasn't red or blue in the C64 palette. What a curious choice, but I guess there is probably a reason.
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#39 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 3,436
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Quote:
Here's the C64 blue-on-blue startup screen for instance: https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/BASIC |
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#40 |
Missile Command Champion
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Germany
Age: 52
Posts: 12,455
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The C64 has just normal saturated colors. But the most pics oder clips on the web uses the old and very inaccurate Pepto palette. He updated his old palette to Colodore, and it's just fine. I can hear this stupid "The C64 has just pastel colors" nonsense anymore. Furthermore the C64 doesn't have fixed colors, so they can look very different (dependig on the used TV/monitor). And the early board revisions output much more saturated colors anyway. I don't know why they decreased the default saturation for the C64c and later models.
https://www.colodore.com/ Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 15 April 2024 at 21:27. |
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