Cloanto debate

[fisken uno]

Originally Posted by glwxxx

Instead of putting someone out of his business you can always run your own bakery. This would be a real contructive approach.

And selling bread that most people wouldn't want to eat? Nah, if I'd start a bakery I'd rather make money off of bread that people would actually WANT to pay money for. The old bread in the basement that the majority wouldn't want I would gladly give away for free

Originally Posted by fisken uno

And selling bread that most people wouldn't want to eat? Nah, if I'd start a bakery I'd rather make money off of bread that people would actually WANT to pay money for. The old bread in the basement that the majority wouldn't want I would gladly give away for free

look, if you don't want it, don't buy it. That's market. Feel free to run your own bakery if you're not satisfied with current situation. By the way, I would really like to see you buying the old bakery for lot of money and then giving everything away for free.

[T_hairy_bootson]

Originally Posted by glwxxx

Is AmigaOS3.x really so old? If you want something, you should pay for it. That's fair. Supply&Demand. Comunism doesn't work, really. They were trying it here for about 40 years and, at the end, it turned out there is nobody to make the bread anymore (if we keep using the metaphores of course).

Kickstart 1.3 is nearly 20 years old...

Do cloanto sell real Kickstart disks for my A1000?

I did pay for it, when I bought my amiga, why should I pay for it again?

If cloanto want to make new software like Amiga Explorer and Personal Paint or even a better Amiga emulator then good luck to them, I would even consider supporting them.

But by selling the kickstart of a dead system where none of the profits go to the people that made it they are just sucking the blood from a dead corpse and killing the scene. And the fact that they have you and other errand boys running around killing the scene by closing down websites proves how they want to suck every last drop.

So the title of this thread is 100% correct "Cloanto Sucks"

[Marcuz]

Originally Posted by glwxxx

look, if you don't want it, don't buy it. That's market. F

it is so simple and it is not so simple: one can chose to buy it or not, but since Cloanto has the monopoly of this particular object required for a practice that is common, in this case emulation, then it's behaviour influences everyone involved, even those who do not choose to buy the object. so they are entlitled to complain or to ask for a better, for instance, support etc. and Cloanto is entitled to say a big NO. so one can be pissed at them. simple.

[Marcuz]

btw, if you like it, wouldnt you prefer to discuss it on IRC and we drop this ping pong?

[fisken uno]

Originally Posted by glwxxx

look, if you don't want it, don't buy it. That's market.

Exactly. But in this case the bakery is not just selling the old bread from the basement but also forcing the bums on the street not to share their own stock of old bread with each others. That's greed in my eyes. Plain and simple.

[Marcuz]

Originally Posted by fisken uno

Exactly. But in this case the bakery is not just selling the old bread from the basement but also forcing the bums on the street not to share their own stock of old bread with each others. That's greed in my eyes. Plain and simple.

it's not greed: it's like if they don't do that they go broken. this means their businness is not sane in itself, needing the enforced closing of concurrents, even if those are illegal, to - not be in full bloom - but to survive. but that's a choice fully allowed by law.

[fisken uno]

Originally Posted by marco pedrana

it's not greed: it's like if they don't do that they go broken. this means their businness is not sane in itself, needing the enforced closing of concurrents, even if those are illegal, to - not be in full bloom - but to survive. but that's a choice fully allowed by law.

I know, but I said that it's greed in my eyes which has little to do with law. It's about ethics and if they couldn't survive without putting out competitors I'd say they need to come up with something newthat sells better. However, how stopping beggars from sharing their bread saves a dying bakery is beyond my understanding. They'd still be broke and angry wouldn't they?

[Ultron]

Originally Posted by guru64

* The fuckin Kickstart and Workbench should by now be a free download. Those fatass execs who managed to buy the rights are making cash off Amiga Nostalgia fans with something they didn't contribute the slightest to develop.

* On their Website they state " This makes it possible to run thousands of Amiga games and demos which are available for free download from software publishers and Amiga history sites alike."
- Yeah right, they should add "from Amiga history sites which we haven't yet harrased, sued and tried to milk for cash".

* On one hand they are 'protecting' the Kickstart from 'being pirated', and on the other hand they try to sell their glorious overpriced package by seducing their customers to download Amiga games for free.
Basically a "don't pirate OUR stuff, but we don't give a shit about all the games by other companies and their rights".

* Most of the Amiga Forever package comes from other people's hard work: Linux, UAE, Fellow, Demos (even by Pirate Group!!! Scoopex), Picasse96, etc, etc.
So basically they sell 'their' Kernel for 40 bucks on a CD where 98% of content is just picked up from other peoples work...

It would be better for the whole Amiga scene if that company just died!

Odin bless. And Hell Yeah!

[Ultron]

Originally Posted by Magno Boots

The above is an automated reply. Please do not respond.

(Well it looks that way because of no apparent human input)

I quote: 'I will say this before I leave this forum forever'

Why don't you get some mouthpiece from Cloanto to defend Amiga Forever instead of you taking all the shit?

It isn't your product is it?

Actually, it is. He can only make money of his product, if Amiga Forever package exists, and if Cloanto is around maintaining the idea that the Classic Amiga can and should be made money of.

How convinient. No wonder he leaves for ever and returns everytime his earnings are at risk.

[Marcuz]

Originally Posted by Ultron

How convinient. No wonder he leaves for ever and returns everytime his earnings are at risk.

this is not about glwxxx AND one can ever come and go on EAB as long he behave the rules. keep that in mind, all.

[Antiriad]

Originally Posted by guru64

* The fuckin Kickstart and Workbench should by now be a free download. Those fatass execs who managed to buy the rights are making cash off Amiga Nostalgia fans with something they didn't contribute the slightest to develop.

* On their Website they state " This makes it possible to run thousands of Amiga games and demos which are available for free download from software publishers and Amiga history sites alike."
- Yeah right, they should add "from Amiga history sites which we haven't yet harrased, sued and tried to milk for cash".

* On one hand they are 'protecting' the Kickstart from 'being pirated', and on the other hand they try to sell their glorious overpriced package by seducing their customers to download Amiga games for free.
Basically a "don't pirate OUR stuff, but we don't give a shit about all the games by other companies and their rights".

* Most of the Amiga Forever package comes from other people's hard work: Linux, UAE, Fellow, Demos (even by Pirate Group!!! Scoopex), Picasse96, etc, etc.
So basically they sell 'their' Kernel for 40 bucks on a CD where 98% of content is just picked up from other peoples work...

It would be better for the whole Amiga scene if that company just died!

Hear hear.

[Ultron]

Originally Posted by fisken uno

That's why people should buy a used Amiga (not that hard to find really) and transfer the kickstart themselves. Or download a kickstart on the internet after they bought the machine. Anything BUT supporting Cloanto

Why not Abandonware the thing (kickstart & workbench v<=3.1) already... some of the stuff in MAME is a lot more recent, and still, it's been pretty much Abandonwared by now, and by the companies who actually made the product.

[Marcuz]

well i guess if one asks politely to a company to give away freely the stuff they have payed for to sell, i'm sure they will oblige

[ant512]

Originally Posted by glwxxx

taken from http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/3-122.html

"We like to believe that Amiga emulation has in general been well-accepted also because, thanks to Amiga Forever, it is properly licensed and supported. If that were not the case, the situation of Amiga emulation in 1997 or 1998 could have been similar to what happened to other systems: police raids, legal actions, court battles, etc.

Or it could have gone the way of Spectrum emulation. Amstrad allowed free distribution of the Speccy ROMs for emulation purposes. What's the situation now? Dozens of top quality emulators for every computer platform capable of running them. I've even got a Speccy emulator on my phone. This archive currently has 14,116 legally redistributable, yet formerly commercial, Spectrum files:

http://www.worldofspectrum.org

What would the world of Amiga emulation look like now if the Kickstart ROMs weren't being sold as part of an overpriced bundle of free and GPL software? Would games publishers feel more comfortable about freely distributing their old games for emulators if the ROMs themselves were free? It certainly worked for the Speccy.

Yes, Cloanto are performing a function by allowing people to use Amiga emulators, but please Cloanto - don't try and convince me you're doing anyone a favour because you're such a philanthropic organisation. You make money. You run a business. If there wasn't any money to be had you wouldn't be doing it.

Oh, and "properly licensed"? That would be properly licensed from a company that bought the IP from a company that bought the technology from another company that bought it from another company that bought it from a company that went bankrupt? How does that considerable degree of separation instill any confidence in the product from a corporate point of view?

Honestly.

Originally Posted by Ultron

Actually, it is. He can only make money of his product, if Amiga Forever package exists, and if Cloanto is around maintaining the idea that the Classic Amiga can and should be made money of.
How convinient. No wonder he leaves for ever and returns everytime his earnings are at risk.

Some people prooved they have no sense for law, truth and what 's worse, a polite behaviour is far beyond their understanding. Unfortunatelly. It seems they just love to acuse other people here without knowing the basic facts. They spread their assumptions in a belief it's the truth. That's cheap.

[Legerdemain]

To put it bluntly... I think some of the comments in this thread seems rather odd.

According to my world the whole thing goes likes this: Cloanto do business. You do business to earn money. You earn money by selling products at a price people are willing to pay. People are obviously willing to pay for Amiga Forever. Since people are willing to pay for Amiga Forever they must consider it be a product worth paying for. If the product Cloanto sells is a product people consider worth paying for, then I personally can't consider it being overpriced.

I have considered buying the package at times... simply because I think it is really worth the price... if not only for the bonus disc with the Deathbed Vigil (which I haven't seen yet).

I can't see how they are supposed to 'hurt' the Amiga community, or the Amiga emulating community, or whatever community in any way by selling a product people obviously is willing to pay to get hold of.

Just look at the Virtual Console. It seems to be pretty well recieved... why isn't people screaming: screw Nintendo! They are just making cash out of something that the community have supported for years! They just rerelease old stuff and sell it for way too much money? Why isn't Nintendo the bad guys this time around? Why don't people scream of angst just because they consider that the software that will be available to buy for download for the Virtual Console should be free... I mean, it soooo old software? Why should one have to pay $5 to be able to play the 23 (or something) years old game Super Mario Bros? Nananananah... and so on...

Cloanto sucks? Well, everyone is free to have their own opinion...

Personally... I just don't get it... if anything, I think they have proven that the name Amiga still holds some interest... otherwise they wouldn't be making any cash at all on their product...

[Olecranon]

Originally Posted by glwxxx

look, if you don't want it, don't buy it. That's market. Feel free to run your own bakery if you're not satisfied with current situation. By the way, I would really like to see you buying the old bakery for lot of money and then giving everything away for free.

Wouldn't you try to get his bakery shut down then?

[fisken uno]

Originally Posted by Legerdemain

I can't see how they are supposed to 'hurt' the Amiga community, or the Amiga emulating community, or whatever community in any way by selling a product people obviously is willing to pay to get hold of.

Because a member on here works for them and reports to them so that they can shut down sites that contain amiga preserving content?

Originally Posted by fisken uno

Because a member on here works for them and reports to them so that they can shut down sites that contain amiga preserving content?

you're a victim of the misinformation of others, my previous post applies.