08 January 2024, 15:36 | #21 |
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This looks really nice!
I'm curious how you've handled the blitting so it avoids fringing. Normally the right edges would start a fringe unless the background pixel is using an indexed color. So one approach is to just use indexed colors only for the background. But this doesn't look to be so limited? The alternative most general solution requires fixing up the right most edges somehow. Anyway, would be interested to learn about the details. |
08 January 2024, 15:39 | #22 |
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This looks awesome!
Great stuff |
08 January 2024, 16:01 | #23 | |
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Amazing work as always - though this goes to a whole different level! I genuinely thought that I was looking at a SNES or PCE game when I first saw the video, before noticing your trademark Hamulet character Amy. If only Commodore had the brains to market this capabilities to game developers back in 1985... Having said that, I have a few questions after seeing this demo:
Thank you and again, really great work. Glad to see someone is still pushing the limits of the OCS Amiga instead of skipping over to AGA (which a lot of people seem to be doing nowadays, sadly) |
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08 January 2024, 18:37 | #24 |
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You are using indexed colors to ourtline bobs(right side)?...then you can use HAM inside the outlined bob. If the (playabe area of the) background is outlined as well with the same 16 color .... it will not fringe at all when you move around?
Am I geting it right? |
08 January 2024, 20:57 | #25 |
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My best guess is that the animated ham bobs include the background. The background is optimized to do not fringe. This is why they do not fringe and cannot be moved. Indeed, the only place where it fringes is where the index color is changed by the copper and this is not baked into the animation. Player and small objects are sprites.
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08 January 2024, 21:05 | #26 | |
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That makes sense. And if so then since those are just copy blits they're not going to be super expensive. |
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08 January 2024, 21:52 | #27 |
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I had this idea for moving the ham bobs around without (much) fringing that's pretty crazy *but* could possibly work in very limited scenarios.
Say the same effect for covering up fringes on the left side of the screen is used for covering up fringes on the right side of bobs. Which is to say, just the right 16x pixels of the animated actors is actually a sprite. There are a bunch of obvious problems with this, which include: - The limited number of sprites available - The limitations on sprite colors which would to some degree defeat the purpose of having a HAM bob at all (but this would only be restricted to the right most 16 pixels regardless of how big the bob is, and you could alternatively make it so the sprite was only the right border and a few more pixels than that) - Unless the sprite had a completely flat edge, less than 16 pixels would be covered on at least some parts of it. Again, some big limitations there, but I could see it working in very well controlled and designed scenarios where there's a big bob moving around with the right edge made out of a sprite. |
09 January 2024, 00:47 | #28 |
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Looks very colourful, I wonder could action be build on that or all power was already used to display those stuff.
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09 January 2024, 01:27 | #29 | |
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1) As guessed by ovale and jobbo, the ham bobs include the background, so in their current state, they are mostly stationary. It would be possible however to have a moving bob with some clever restrictions on the background. But at this stage, this was mostly just a test of HAM animation. 2) With the proper background, for example a large 'boss enemy' moving over a transparent sky gradient background, the HAM bob could move freely both vertically and horizontally. 3) Memory wise, probably only 'large bosses' would potentially use a HAM bob. The other idea I had (for possibly a future project) would be on the CD32: using the CD as a massive storage for animated HAM bobs. 4) Oh no, for Hamulet I either bought or commissioned some of the pixel art, and here for this HAM bob test, I used graphics from the game Bzzzt, from the game Super Mutant Alien Assault, from Pixilart, and from Metal Slug. Thank you everyone for your comments and ideas! Now, back to work.. p.s.: Regarding Gzegzolka's question: This test is a bit of a 'stress test' to stretch the limit. The metal slug truck is so big (144x170 pixels: that's 18360 bytes per frame) that it can make the game skip a frame when horizontal scrolling. p.p.s: trivia: the truck is 170 pixel tall, because this is the tallest vertical size that the Amiga blitter can do in HAM interleaved mode |
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09 January 2024, 01:40 | #30 |
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AMAZEBALLS!
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09 January 2024, 06:28 | #31 |
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Great stuff @remz!
Honestly I see this and I feel a platformer would be a perfect match really. I.e. something with lush backgrounds and verticality. Instead of being shooter focused or with many moving-enemies on screen, it could be a course with hazards or stationary baddies (or ones with a short animation loop) with the main protagonist having loads of mobility and being able to perform a plethora of actions to get around (dashes, double jumps e.t.c.). In regards to ram, I think levels don't need to be huge either, it could -as well- be just the size of what is showcased here, or have each level split to several similar screens (load in between) or even have single screens with no scrolling at all. Then depending on the available ram/performance in each scenario you could allocate resources accordingly to variation and eye-candy or animated obstacles and enemies. Overall what is shown in the video also covers nicely what you can do with the moving stuff (using exclusively HAM bobs). F.e.
Other ideas you could try (not showcased):
Overall I think all the above combined (and despite the restrictions) can cover a ton of cases for varied gameplay or gameplay mechanics. And this without even having to touch on sprites yet. You could use the sprites then exclusively for the player or for effects or even additional attached enemies (so there is not a massive rendering difference between sprites and HAM bobs). On the matter of platforming, enemies can also easily (and naturally) be placed to specific platforms/elevation and restricted there, plus (usually) you don't need a lot of them at the each screen, so multiplexing and using copper for more variation can get you a lot of mileage. |
09 January 2024, 07:47 | #32 | |||
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Ah that makes sense. Yes, I guess you could have an a big helicopter or a dragon that's floating in the sky. I think someone mention lining up the Bob with sprite to hide the smudging effect if you can't stick to a plain color or gradient background. https://www.arcadequartermaster.com/mslug/m1.1.png Or may be something more basic like 1944 Loop Master - so the part where your P-47 Thunderbolt has to fight against a gigantic battle ship or tank - which is basically just moving up and down vertically. [ Show youtube player ] Wow, imagine that, a 1985 Amiga OCS doing a perfect arcade conversion of 1944 Loop Master - a game that came out on in 2000! Quote:
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Ah that explains why it makes me think of those platforms! |
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09 January 2024, 08:08 | #33 | |
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Your work is incredible |
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09 January 2024, 09:56 | #34 | |
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Even last generation OCS Amiga games (94) were intended to run from HDD (Ambermoon, Lucas Arts adventures etc.) |
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09 January 2024, 19:17 | #35 |
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Bobs like this would look amazing in some form of turn based JRPG game as they wouldn't need to move around inside the battle screen OR a deck building rogues that you see on consoles/PCs like Slay the Spire or Darkest Dungeon
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09 January 2024, 20:05 | #36 | |
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09 January 2024, 21:44 | #37 | |
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if you also look at "modern" games that intentionally go with the retro look/feel then you could even maybe do something like BackPack Hero, Darkest Dungeon, Gunpoint, Shadows/West of Loathing, FTL, Plague Inc, Geometric Sniper, Let Them Come, Soda Dungeon and probably countless more less screen intense games that may be possible. |
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09 January 2024, 22:49 | #38 | ||
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In general whatever game assumes/requires many high color-objects moving over an equally colorful background freely is a hard 'no' here (unfortunately). Quote:
Makes you realize that one of the platform's biggest issues was not actually technical, but lacking on artistic talent, manpower and big budgets which would be necessary to produce high level gfx and animations like that (and loads of them). |
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09 January 2024, 22:55 | #39 |
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The tools count too: not too sure on OCS (i think Photon Paint used that principle) but on AGA programs like TrueBrilliance and Photogenics were game changers for manipulate HAM pictures by working in 24 bit; i remember trying to do stuff on Digipaint and the fringing was making me go crazy -_-
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09 January 2024, 23:20 | #40 |
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I suppose a first person dungeon crawler could also be made out of this, since foes tend to be basically big, static and animated.
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