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#21 |
KO2 world champion
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Rome (Italy)
Age: 44
Posts: 99
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I think Brian the lion is a good attempt to take advantage of AGA chipset
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#22 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: oslo/norway
Posts: 1,616
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I think Alladin, Super Stardust and Banshee look nice for games not mentioned.
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#23 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Italy
Posts: 1,965
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thank you guys for all the explanations and also for the different opinions, truly appreciated
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i'll try a long shot here, because i've always thought that also games like Lomax, Rayman (the first one) and X2 (project x sequel on ps1) would have a good yeld on AGA too, of course downgraded in some things |
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#24 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 318
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AGA has been nowhere near exploited. The Amiga is more complicated than most hardware and most developers moved on to other machines before AGA games got anywhere near maxing out the hardware
The Amiga CD32 with it's Akiko chip and streaming ability similarly has also not been using anywhere near it's maximum That does look great although I think it has a smaller viewport/screen than the Mega CD which I found disappointing. I am a big fan of fullscreen games |
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#25 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: London / Sydney
Age: 47
Posts: 20,420
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#26 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Sandusky
Posts: 944
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Breathless and AB3D2 do not use AGA at all, other than using an 8-bit screenmode. They're entirely CPU driven. The C2P in AB3D2 isn't even very good (as later patches with better c2p engines have shown). AB3D2 2 meg version does use the better AGA implementation of copper chunky (which still uses an OCS screenmode).
Almost every AGA game released only used AGA to enable 8-bit color, or enable dual playfield on an OCS game to have a 16-color background. Many games that had an OCS and AGA version just enabled dual playfield on AGA with that being the only difference. To be fair, the only other features of AGA that can be exploited in lores NTSC/PAL are the better fetchmodes (enabled to exploit the dual playfield usually), and the wider sprites (almost never used). You could conceivably make a 2D game that would be impossible on OCS but possible on AGA in EHB by taking advantage of the better fetchmodes to do more stuff with the blitter plus the better CPU, but I don't think this was done. The longer blitter operations ECS introduced that carried over into AGA were almost never used because they required fast RAM to really be taken advantage of (if the CPU stalls the longer operation does no good). Ultimately AGA is just OCS/ECS with some tweaks to expand bandwidth and use that bandwidth for more colors and wider sprites. i.e. it's what ECS really should have been (and in 1987 instead of 1990). |
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#27 | |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cardiff, UK
Age: 51
Posts: 2,871
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You might reply with "but demos suck, I want GAMES" but you have to remember that AGA came out less than a year before Doom came out on PC, and so obviously, the chipset was never sufficiently utilised for the kind of 2D platform games that were a quickly-dying genre. As proven with the Sega 32X, Nintendo's 3D chip for Starfox, the upcoming Saturn and the eventual king, the PlayStation, everyone was keen to go 3D. Last edited by Foebane; 24 December 2020 at 19:52. |
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#28 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 741
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If I am reading wiki correctly, AGA didn't support chunky modes?
Meaning, C2P must handle 8 bitplanes? In the other thread, a number of~20 ms for C2P was mentioned. How much slower is C2P at 256-color modes? |
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#29 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Finland
Posts: 168
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Quote:
Yes, no chunky modes in AGA. A C2P can usefully do 1-8 bitplanes for AGA, less bitplanes are faster of course. A C2P costs various amounts of time depending on CPU speed, bitplanes used, and pixel quality (e.g. 1x1 or 2x2), but ultimately the chip ram write speed is the limit, which is reached for C2P's for 68040 and 68060 CPUs. At fullscreen 320x256 and 256 colors this means a bit over 10 ms per frame, which is rarely reached in practice. Because another problem is that many faster CPU accelerator boards have a poor memory performance both for chip and fast ram access, and the max 7 MB/sec write speed to chip ram is reached only by a few boards for A1200 (at least 68030 Blizzard IV 50 MHz, and the new Warp 1260 68060 105 MHz board, maybe some other too). Reducing screen size, having less colors, and using poorer pixel quality are common ways to speed up C2Ps. |
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#30 |
Speedbump gimme goosebump
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Amiga version of Disney's Lion King is a good example of the possibilities of AGA chipset being vastly underused.
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#31 | |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cardiff, UK
Age: 51
Posts: 2,871
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#32 | |
Inviyya Dude!
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Amiga Island
Posts: 2,797
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Compared to OCS's 4BPL+spriteParallax it still looks like a 16 colour game, just with more details in the backgrounds. I'd love to see a 64 color game, for instance. |
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#33 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Northampton/UK
Posts: 530
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A doubling of the coppers speed would give a full copper chunky 320 x 256 if starting from super high resolution wouldn't it? Or is thst not how it works.
Last edited by khph_re; 27 December 2020 at 11:20. |
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#34 | ||
Dream Merchant
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dreamlands
Posts: 530
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Quote:
![]() X2 is pretty massive, I think the closest example of what we can achieve on AGA is T-Zero (and that game needs an 030+FastRAM to shine anyway). But gimme a T0-level graphics on vanilla 1200 with X2 gameplay (japanese re-release, not original Team17 one ![]() ![]() Rayman on the other hand... If the reference is the unreleased SNES version and not Jaguar/PSX ones, maybe that could work. Quote:
![]() On top of that you have other 16 independent colors sprites (or up to 24c if not attached) and that can give a further boost visually - again, if you know your stuff. ![]() Completely agree on the 64 color game! ![]() ... and still fancing about that full arcade port of Puzzle Bobble! ![]() |
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#35 | |
Inviyya Dude!
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Amiga Island
Posts: 2,797
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So you have a bit of a finer stepping in your color ramps, but still only 16 colors to work with. I acknowledge you can have more colors on screen with the sprites doing their thing, but that's hardly scalable in a generic engine usage. |
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#36 |
Dream Merchant
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dreamlands
Posts: 530
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#37 | |
Inviyya Dude!
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Amiga Island
Posts: 2,797
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Saves so much work. I would have never finished this game if I didn't switch over. Took me half a year to redraw all those assets and readjust my engine. Was worth the work, though. It's all fun creating one level with all those special quirks and stuff, but creating assets for a whole game with all these restrictions in mind is horrible. |
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#38 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Sunderland, England
Posts: 2,702
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Purely for technical purposes, does anyone have a working download link for Flink for the CD32.
I want to check what screen mode / fetch mode the game is running in and what it does with the sprites. Alternatively, if someone know a good webpage with the information I would be most grateful. Geezer |
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#39 | |
Dream Merchant
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dreamlands
Posts: 530
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#40 | |
Inviyya Dude!
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Amiga Island
Posts: 2,797
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Off course those levels look amazing when you first see them, but if every level had only those shades of brown and grey in the foreground it would start to look boring after a few levels. Plus, on Agony where they do this, you could barely make out the enemies in front of the same coloured background. |
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