Games serie you liked the first chapters more than the later ones? - Page 2

kremiso · 13 July 2023, 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by chip

Lemmings, loved the first one

Never played the second and the third chapter

i have tried invane an approach with the later chapters but no
i think the larger type of job/icons was my personal not liked point

i have played a lot also the turbografx cd version and the psp one, but both them are still based on the first one, so same here

maybe someone liked the 3d versions?

---
about R-Type, im very debated between the first one and the Delta chapter on PS1

i love the first one, but after level 4 its a pita without cheats
Delta is still hard but totally doable imo

didn't like the snes chapters, as the second one, as the PC remake

jotd · 13 July 2023, 16:58

come to think of it there are a LOT of 1st chapters that are better.

For me (repeating some suggestions said earlier):

- Lemmings (Lemmings 2 didn't appeal to me, first one was perfect)
- Mortal Kombat (sequels are just too hard with CPU)
- Alien Breed (special edition is easier though), never got into AB2 or TA even if they're beautiful. The first one is just special.
- Cannon Fodder (CF2 is good but even harder it's insane)

Lotus is great but non full screen "feature" kills it for me. I loved Lotus 2, so gorgeous in comparison (even if Lotus Esprit graphics shine, it's really ruined by the half screen)

Those are exceptions. Unlike movies, the 2nd opus (when it exists) is often the best, and most of the time the third one is less good. For movies it's completely different, first opus has to be the best (else there is no number 2!), number 2 often sucks, and number 3 is often better than the 2nd one.Sorry to speak so generally but it happens a lot.

... and if there's a 8th movie it has to be crap...

Megalomaniac · 13 July 2023, 18:41

I can't help thinking that a lot of people wrote Lemmings 2 off without really putting any time into learning the new skills and how to apply them, or absorb the 'saving one Lemmings gets you through, but having another go and saving more Lemmings makes it easier later' - the fact that it took until 2015 for anyone to perfectly complete the whole game tells you it has great longevity. To me it's a better successor than Oh No! More Lemmings,

I've never comfortable with the "but Lotus 3 is good when patched on an A1200" argument. It's like saying that a crap 80p ready meal is nice when you add fresh chicken and cheese and more tomatoes. What left the company originally didn't work on the A1200, we can only fairly judge it on its A500 performance. I still think it's an inferior game to either of the first two regardless of the speed, but there you go.

Was Cannon Fodder 2 harder, or just puzzlier?

Predseda · 13 July 2023, 21:56

I like much much more Pinball Dreams than Pinball Fantasies.

gimbal · 14 July 2023, 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paulee_Alex_Bow

At least on the Amiga, I preferred the earlier Sierra games…
- Police Quest 1

Police Quest 2 Amiga is the best for me. It's a bit slow at times but the tense atmosphere more than makes up for it.

kremiso · 14 July 2023, 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotd

...Those are exceptions. Unlike movies, the 2nd opus (when it exists) is often the best, and most of the time the third one is less good. For movies it's completely different, first opus has to be the best (else there is no number 2!), number 2 often sucks, and number 3 is often better than the 2nd one.Sorry to speak so generally but it happens a lot.

... and if there's a 8th movie it has to be crap...

lol, as also a developer you were calculating the formula behind sequels
it does indeed fit many times

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megalomaniac

...Was Cannon Fodder 2 harder, or just puzzlier?

what jotd said, terrible harder
enemies coming from each direction, also in the first missions
seek and destroy reversed, you are the rabbit
imo
a shame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Predseda

I like much much more Pinball Dreams than Pinball Fantasies.

maybe also due the ball physic ?
i like all the serie, but in the second chapter the ball sometime 'seems' a bit lighter, more nervous in some rebounds

gimbal · 14 July 2023, 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotd

For movies it's completely different, first opus has to be the best (else there is no number 2!), number 2 often sucks, and number 3 is often better than the 2nd one.

And then many years later the second entry is better received than it was on release

jotd · 14 July 2023, 10:11

I liked Cannon Fodder 2 but it really seemed like it was a "new levels" disk. I don't remember that there were different mechanics.

But the Sensible team admitted themselves: if the level was doable, then, that was it. It meant no playtesters for instance. Like for Lemmings, the team designed the levels as hard as possible and they could nail it since they coded the game themselves. It was true in the first opus, and pushed to the extreme in the second opus. The alien levels were atrocious, with - added - holes that instant killed the soldiers, but unlike spikes, could kill the whole team.

Some third party/fan-made Cannon Fodder levels was created some years ago and it was horribly difficult too.

Fiery Phoenix · 14 July 2023, 10:42

When I think of a game series, I think of more than 2 (is that just me?)

So whilst I agree with Cannon Fodder 2, I will discount it. Same with Thrust 2 (such a shame, original is one of my best games ever)

I think Finders Keepers is the best out of the Magic Knight series - although the music in Spellbound is awesome

Operation Wolf is the best (less said about Op Wolf 3 the better)

Original Paperboy is the best

Original OutRun is the best

Agree about Lemmings

demoniac · 14 July 2023, 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by kremiso

absolutely agree with this
imo there is an abyss between first and second chapter, i liked more the single medieval style setting

Waxworks was similar, but without Elvira. In a way, the developers crammed different plotlines together for one game.

B.A.T. is much better than B.A.T. II in terms of music and dark atmosphere.

jotd · 14 July 2023, 15:32

Some "2" versions are ported by "B-teams". Paperboy 2 is a good example. Paperboy is a fair arcade port. Paperboy 2 doesn't even exist in the arcade, so it probably sucks right from the start.
Same for Outrun. And probably Robocop too, but arcade port was botched so R2 is better.

AestheticDebris · 14 July 2023, 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megalomaniac

I can't help thinking that a lot of people wrote Lemmings 2 off without really putting any time into learning the new skills and how to apply them, or absorb the 'saving one Lemmings gets you through, but having another go and saving more Lemmings makes it easier later' - the fact that it took until 2015 for anyone to perfectly complete the whole game tells you it has great longevity. To me it's a better successor than Oh No! More Lemmings,

I enjoyed Lemmings 2, though not as much as the original and I'd definitely got Gold on everything long before 2015 (I'm guessing that was someone saving every single Lemming?) The sequels that followed that were very much diminishing returns though.

Fully agree on Lotus 3 though, to say it's a better game if you run it on upgraded hardware and patch the living daylights out of it to do so is a bit of a stretch.

DisasterIncarna · 14 July 2023, 16:07

Paradroid, Chaos Engine, Cannon Fodder, Arnie, Battle Chess, Ghostbusters, Impossible Mission

kremiso · 14 July 2023, 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiery Phoenix

When I think of a game series, I think of more than 2 (is that just me?)

So whilst I agree with Cannon Fodder 2, I will discount it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotd

Some "2" versions are ported by "B-teams"...

true
ie what about Cannon Fodder 3 ,on PC?
it should be considered part of the serie?:

[ Show youtube player ]

gimbal · 14 July 2023, 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by kremiso

true
ie what about cannon fodder 3 ,on pc?
It should be considered part of the serie?:

[ Show youtube player ]

no!

kremiso · 14 July 2023, 18:59

for wikipedia is all fine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannon_Fodder

kremiso · 14 July 2023, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by DisasterIncarna

Paradroid, Chaos Engine, Cannon Fodder, Arnie, Battle Chess, Ghostbusters, Impossible Mission

Impossible Mission on C64 for sure, i presume also Paradroid and Ghostbusters?
if so, i agree

Anubis · 14 July 2023, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigerskunk

Actually almost all of them for me.

Bard's Tale 1 was much better than 2 for me, let alone 3.
Same for me with Turrican, for example.

First time is always the magic.

While for me Turrican 2 was much better and had proffered soundtrack.

gimbal · 14 July 2023, 23:47

Same. Turrican 2 was the first one I played of course. First time is always the magic. God I can still remember booting it for the first time. I didn't have the Miggy for so long yet and had some okay games for it, some others I would consider bad today. And then we got T2 pretty much on a whim because it looked cool in the magazine. Jesus when the title music started to play. I didn't know that level of quality was possible.

kremiso · 15 July 2023, 09:07

if i must choose, im also with Turrican 1
just a level fave thing here

Tower of Morgul on T1, then the techno dungeon on T2 and in the Muzza AGA version, also great

didnt like too much the alien levels part on T2, i think they are better in the Muzza work
(apart the gfx thing)

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13 July 2023, 16:58	#22
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,367	come to think of it there are a LOT of 1st chapters that are better. For me (repeating some suggestions said earlier): - Lemmings (Lemmings 2 didn't appeal to me, first one was perfect) - Mortal Kombat (sequels are just too hard with CPU) - Alien Breed (special edition is easier though), never got into AB2 or TA even if they're beautiful. The first one is just special. - Cannon Fodder (CF2 is good but even harder it's insane) Lotus is great but non full screen "feature" kills it for me. I loved Lotus 2, so gorgeous in comparison (even if Lotus Esprit graphics shine, it's really ruined by the half screen) Those are exceptions. Unlike movies, the 2nd opus (when it exists) is often the best, and most of the time the third one is less good. For movies it's completely different, first opus has to be the best (else there is no number 2!), number 2 often sucks, and number 3 is often better than the 2nd one.Sorry to speak so generally but it happens a lot. ... and if there's a 8th movie it has to be crap...

13 July 2023, 18:41	#23
Megalomaniac Registered User Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Eastbourne Posts: 1,080	I can't help thinking that a lot of people wrote Lemmings 2 off without really putting any time into learning the new skills and how to apply them, or absorb the 'saving one Lemmings gets you through, but having another go and saving more Lemmings makes it easier later' - the fact that it took until 2015 for anyone to perfectly complete the whole game tells you it has great longevity. To me it's a better successor than Oh No! More Lemmings, I've never comfortable with the "but Lotus 3 is good when patched on an A1200" argument. It's like saying that a crap 80p ready meal is nice when you add fresh chicken and cheese and more tomatoes. What left the company originally didn't work on the A1200, we can only fairly judge it on its A500 performance. I still think it's an inferior game to either of the first two regardless of the speed, but there you go. Was Cannon Fodder 2 harder, or just puzzlier?

13 July 2023, 21:56	#24
Predseda Puttymoon inhabitant Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tromaville Age: 46 Posts: 7,566	I like much much more Pinball Dreams than Pinball Fantasies.

14 July 2023, 10:11	#28
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,367	I liked Cannon Fodder 2 but it really seemed like it was a "new levels" disk. I don't remember that there were different mechanics. But the Sensible team admitted themselves: if the level was doable, then, that was it. It meant no playtesters for instance. Like for Lemmings, the team designed the levels as hard as possible and they could nail it since they coded the game themselves. It was true in the first opus, and pushed to the extreme in the second opus. The alien levels were atrocious, with - added - holes that instant killed the soldiers, but unlike spikes, could kill the whole team. Some third party/fan-made Cannon Fodder levels was created some years ago and it was horribly difficult too.

14 July 2023, 10:42	#29
Fiery Phoenix Registered User Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Bury, Lancs Age: 47 Posts: 664	When I think of a game series, I think of more than 2 (is that just me?) So whilst I agree with Cannon Fodder 2, I will discount it. Same with Thrust 2 (such a shame, original is one of my best games ever) I think Finders Keepers is the best out of the Magic Knight series - although the music in Spellbound is awesome Operation Wolf is the best (less said about Op Wolf 3 the better) Original Paperboy is the best Original OutRun is the best Agree about Lemmings

14 July 2023, 15:32	#31
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,367	Some "2" versions are ported by "B-teams". Paperboy 2 is a good example. Paperboy is a fair arcade port. Paperboy 2 doesn't even exist in the arcade, so it probably sucks right from the start. Same for Outrun. And probably Robocop too, but arcade port was botched so R2 is better.

14 July 2023, 16:07	#33
DisasterIncarna Registered User Join Date: Oct 2021 Location: England Posts: 1,257	Paradroid, Chaos Engine, Cannon Fodder, Arnie, Battle Chess, Ghostbusters, Impossible Mission

14 July 2023, 18:59	#36
kremiso Registered User Join Date: Dec 2020 Location: Italy Posts: 1,954	for wikipedia is all fine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannon_Fodder

14 July 2023, 23:47	#39
gimbal cheeky scoundrel Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Spijkenisse/Netherlands Age: 42 Posts: 6,969	Same. Turrican 2 was the first one I played of course. First time is always the magic. God I can still remember booting it for the first time. I didn't have the Miggy for so long yet and had some okay games for it, some others I would consider bad today. And then we got T2 pretty much on a whim because it looked cool in the magazine. Jesus when the title music started to play. I didn't know that level of quality was possible.

15 July 2023, 09:07	#40
kremiso Registered User Join Date: Dec 2020 Location: Italy Posts: 1,954	if i must choose, im also with Turrican 1 just a level fave thing here Tower of Morgul on T1, then the techno dungeon on T2 and in the Muzza AGA version, also great didnt like too much the alien levels part on T2, i think they are better in the Muzza work (apart the gfx thing)

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