Broken Apollo 060 (upped from 040) - Page 2

jbenam · 21 February 2010, 13:10

I'm going to do the same thing (I've got a 1240 for this something like 12 months ago!) soon (well, as soon as I finally find some time to order that 74F74!)

Also got a Desoldering Station just for this

I'm probably gonna put a socket first, then test if the 040 still works, and only then proceed to put the 060 in. Also, socketing the EEPROM should be a good idea too!

This way, I should be able to quickly test back the 040 if something with the 060 fails

Good luck in making your Apollo work again, bubsy

Zetr0 · 21 February 2010, 13:17

@jbenam

Did those 74F74's i sent finally make it to itally??!?!?!?

jbenam · 21 February 2010, 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetr0

@jbenam

Did those 74F74's i sent finally make it to itally??!?!?!?

NOPE

They never arrived

Still, thanks a lot for the effort, Zetr0!

Luckily after months and months, I've finally found a reseller here in Italy which has them

Still haven't got around to do the order though

Zetr0 · 21 February 2010, 13:35

=(

y'know.... some where in the world theres some whom had 4 of this chips and without a clue of what they are for and for who =(

jbenam · 21 February 2010, 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetr0

=(

y'know.... some where in the world theres some whom had 4 of this chips and without a clue of what they are for and for who =(

That's just sad, having good chips thrown away like that

Well, I'll tell the shop to hide them well in the parcel, as it seems the Italian Post really likes them!

Matt020 · 21 February 2010, 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt020

How do you know that the 060 actually works?

A genuine question.

Good question dude.
Anyone ever tell you that you're a smart fella. And, tops with the ladies too.

8bitbubsy · 21 February 2010, 14:06

Hehe.. Yes, I actually don't know if the 060 work. Good question indeed.. But I'll try a new EPROM with 5.60 first, then maybe some other ideas before I actually try another 060.

Zetr0 and jbenam:
74F74? There's none of those on my Apollo 040...

But there's these four philips chips above the SIMM slot:
#1:
74F257AD
2262A19
9614nG
(Looks soldered-after-production, maybe changed?)

#2:
74F257AD
FXV6718
9631nG

#3:
74F257AD
FXV6718
9631nG

#4:
74F257AD
FXV6718
9631nG

I think there's something mystic about chip #1!

There's also one below the jumpers:
61A9F9F
F74

Guess that's the one you mean, just mine is another brand

Loedown · 21 February 2010, 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8bitbubsy

Hehe.. Yes, I actually don't know if the 060 work. Good question indeed.. But I'll try a new EPROM with 5.60 first, then maybe some other ideas before I actually try another 060.

Zetr0 and jbenam:
74F74? There's none of those on my Apollo 040...

But there's these four philips chips above the SIMM slot:
#1:
74F257AD
2262A19
9614nG
(Looks soldered-after-production - a lot of flux on it.. , maybe changed??)

#2:
74F257AD
FXV6718
9631nG

#3:
74F257AD
FXV6718
9631nG

#4:
74F257AD
FXV6718
9631nG

I smell something fishy with the first one!!!

If you smell something fishy, in the literal sense, bad caps smell like well matured urine or have a similarly fishy smell.

If you meant it as the card has been reworked, I'd check the previous person's work.

8bitbubsy · 21 February 2010, 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loedown

If you smell something fishy, in the literal sense, bad caps smell like well matured urine or have a similarly fishy smell.

If you meant it as the card has been reworked, I'd check the previous person's work.

I meant fishy as in "this is mystic", not in smelling.. I updated my post

jbenam · 21 February 2010, 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8bitbubsy

61A9F9F
F74

Guess that's the one you mean, just mine is another brand

Yup, it's exactly that. Mine is a Fairchild branded 74F74

On my card it was badly corroded by the leaking battery (which has obviously been removed!) and something like 5 legs fell from it, rendering it unusable

Sadly acid has eaten 4-5 pads too!

...It'll be fun to repair it

8bitbubsy · 21 February 2010, 17:10

Bumping news:
If I keep the A1200 with the Apollo turned on for like 30-60 secs, eventually something funky starts to happen. Either it's a red screen (RAM error?) or it's a flickering wavy weird thing!! Sometimes it's nothing, and sometimes it goes to a completely black screen instead of gray. After a period of time that is.

Also, I don't get the fade-to-grey thingie, nor the floppy read sound, so I know something serious is wrong.

And again: If I pull out the SIMM and the RAM jumper, it's still nothing.

Photon · 21 February 2010, 21:17

Voltages okay when Apollo isn't inserted. OK, so the error is definitely on the board, and the mobo can still communicate with an accelerator. That's good at least

The only thing left before considering a dead CPU is - could you take a pic of the jumper settings?

If voltage jumper was at 5V, or if the clock jumper was in 2x mode at any time during testing with the 68060 inserted, that is likely to have killed it.

Zetr0 · 21 February 2010, 22:19

@photon

the clock jumper doesn't change anything with the CPU, only the Memory -

the 040 has an internal divisor for the cards pump (clock) as such a 50mhz OSc will pump the 040 on every second tick due to its internal divisor

the 060 doens't have such and will just pump every tick at 50 - 60 - 66 - 74 - 80mhz and above -

As you know my friend, the 060 can handle quite high frequencies - the 71EJ4 mask 060's have been reported to run comftably at 100mhz with some active cooling.

-

I honest think that there problem with Bubsy's kit (other than him hitting it) lies within the 131 Mach and the 060 cpu -

Jumpers are set fine
I knowing Chain - that the ROM is certainly sound
The board revision is a known good one.
With the Jumpers set -
- CLK: 040
- RAM: ON
- SCSI: OFF
- 060: ON

The only thing this realistically could be - other than a mechanical fault (check the socket / caps and resistor placement) is a failed CPU or MACH chip incompatability.

8bitbubsy · 21 February 2010, 22:29

And I can forget to find a new programmed MACH131 for it.. Sigh, there goes another great opportunity

jbenam · 22 February 2010, 00:02

A real shame

Well, the least you can do is to revert it to 040, and see if it works like that. A working Apollo 1240 is better than nothing!

Nikolaj_sofus · 22 February 2010, 11:54

Beeing quite an amiga n00b, i still have to ask this question.

can't it be a timing issue?
I've been reading at several other threads that the 1d4 and 2b mainboards can have some errors whichs can cause problems with 040 and 060 accelerators.

I know that he wrote that it did work with the 040, but failed after he got it back with the 060.
If it works with the 040 does that automatically mean that the mainboard will also work with an 060?

8bitbubsy · 22 February 2010, 12:19

I've done the timing fix on my 1D.4, and when it was 040 it worked just fine... So I doubt it.

Speaking of 040, can someone please hand me the very latest 040 boot ROM..? I'm getting an EPROM burner soon, and several 27C010s...
I know the 040 ROM is smaller, but padding the rest with NOPs (just in case of an unexpected JMP) should do just fine.

Chain · 24 February 2010, 13:43

maybe im wrong but settign jumper to 040 also means select for reading 27c128 in eprom socket, but just guessing from my experiments

EDIT: all needed files are here
http://chain.3dgrafika.cz/100mhz/files/

8bitbubsy · 24 February 2010, 14:40

Thanks for the files, Chain!

One very last question to be sure:
For my setup (Apollo 1240 with 68060 50MHz and standard 5v 32MB 60ns SIMM), where should the CLK resistor be? GND or CLKEN..? I have a 50Mhz oscillator fitted, and I'm not going to overclock, but run it at 50MHz...
And what about the CLK jumper? 040 or 060?

Chain · 24 February 2010, 20:06

resistor should be at GND pad, as default
jumper goes to 060 of course

also try it without ram stick first, as apollo is pretty picky
(you can leave ram jumper on, as it autodetects 0mb

)

21 February 2010, 14:06	#27
8bitbubsy Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 1,719	Hehe.. Yes, I actually don't know if the 060 work. Good question indeed.. But I'll try a new EPROM with 5.60 first, then maybe some other ideas before I actually try another 060. Zetr0 and jbenam: 74F74? There's none of those on my Apollo 040... But there's these four philips chips above the SIMM slot: #1: 74F257AD 2262A19 9614nG (Looks soldered-after-production, maybe changed?) #2: 74F257AD FXV6718 9631nG #3: 74F257AD FXV6718 9631nG #4: 74F257AD FXV6718 9631nG I think there's something mystic about chip #1! There's also one below the jumpers: 61A9F9F F74 Guess that's the one you mean, just mine is another brand Last edited by 8bitbubsy; 21 February 2010 at 14:22.

21 February 2010, 17:10	#31
8bitbubsy Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 1,719	Bumping news: If I keep the A1200 with the Apollo turned on for like 30-60 secs, eventually something funky starts to happen. Either it's a red screen (RAM error?) or it's a flickering wavy weird thing!! Sometimes it's nothing, and sometimes it goes to a completely black screen instead of gray. After a period of time that is. Also, I don't get the fade-to-grey thingie, nor the floppy read sound, so I know something serious is wrong. And again: If I pull out the SIMM and the RAM jumper, it's still nothing. Last edited by 8bitbubsy; 21 February 2010 at 17:18.

21 February 2010, 22:19	#33
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@photon the clock jumper doesn't change anything with the CPU, only the Memory - the 040 has an internal divisor for the cards pump (clock) as such a 50mhz OSc will pump the 040 on every second tick due to its internal divisor the 060 doens't have such and will just pump every tick at 50 - 60 - 66 - 74 - 80mhz and above - As you know my friend, the 060 can handle quite high frequencies - the 71EJ4 mask 060's have been reported to run comftably at 100mhz with some active cooling. - I honest think that there problem with Bubsy's kit (other than him hitting it) lies within the 131 Mach and the 060 cpu - Jumpers are set fine I knowing Chain - that the ROM is certainly sound The board revision is a known good one. With the Jumpers set - CLK: 040 RAM: ON SCSI: OFF 060: ON The only thing this realistically could be - other than a mechanical fault (check the socket / caps and resistor placement) is a failed CPU or MACH chip incompatability.

22 February 2010, 12:19	#37
8bitbubsy Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 1,719	I've done the timing fix on my 1D.4, and when it was 040 it worked just fine... So I doubt it. Speaking of 040, can someone please hand me the very latest 040 boot ROM..? I'm getting an EPROM burner soon, and several 27C010s... I know the 040 ROM is smaller, but padding the rest with NOPs (just in case of an unexpected JMP) should do just fine. Last edited by 8bitbubsy; 22 February 2010 at 13:12.

24 February 2010, 13:43	#38
Chain A-Collector, repairments Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Czech Rep. Age: 50 Posts: 1,536	maybe im wrong but settign jumper to 040 also means select for reading 27c128 in eprom socket, but just guessing from my experiments EDIT: all needed files are here http://chain.3dgrafika.cz/100mhz/files/ Last edited by Chain; 24 February 2010 at 13:53.

21 February 2010, 13:10	#21
jbenam Italian Amiga Zealot Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Italy Age: 36 Posts: 1,914	I'm going to do the same thing (I've got a 1240 for this something like 12 months ago!) soon (well, as soon as I finally find some time to order that 74F74!) Also got a Desoldering Station just for this I'm probably gonna put a socket first, then test if the 040 still works, and only then proceed to put the 060 in. Also, socketing the EEPROM should be a good idea too! This way, I should be able to quickly test back the 040 if something with the 060 fails Good luck in making your Apollo work again, bubsy

21 February 2010, 13:17	#22
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@jbenam Did those 74F74's i sent finally make it to itally??!?!?!?

21 February 2010, 13:35	#24
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	=( y'know.... some where in the world theres some whom had 4 of this chips and without a clue of what they are for and for who =(

21 February 2010, 21:17	#32
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,660	Voltages okay when Apollo isn't inserted. OK, so the error is definitely on the board, and the mobo can still communicate with an accelerator. That's good at least The only thing left before considering a dead CPU is - could you take a pic of the jumper settings? If voltage jumper was at 5V, or if the clock jumper was in 2x mode at any time during testing with the 68060 inserted, that is likely to have killed it.

21 February 2010, 22:29	#34
8bitbubsy Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 1,719	And I can forget to find a new programmed MACH131 for it.. Sigh, there goes another great opportunity

22 February 2010, 00:02	#35
jbenam Italian Amiga Zealot Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Italy Age: 36 Posts: 1,914	A real shame Well, the least you can do is to revert it to 040, and see if it works like that. A working Apollo 1240 is better than nothing!

22 February 2010, 11:54	#36
Nikolaj_sofus Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Copenhagen / Denmark Age: 44 Posts: 259	Beeing quite an amiga n00b, i still have to ask this question. can't it be a timing issue? I've been reading at several other threads that the 1d4 and 2b mainboards can have some errors whichs can cause problems with 040 and 060 accelerators. I know that he wrote that it did work with the 040, but failed after he got it back with the 060. If it works with the 040 does that automatically mean that the mainboard will also work with an 060?

24 February 2010, 14:40	#39
8bitbubsy Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 1,719	Thanks for the files, Chain! One very last question to be sure: For my setup (Apollo 1240 with 68060 50MHz and standard 5v 32MB 60ns SIMM), where should the CLK resistor be? GND or CLKEN..? I have a 50Mhz oscillator fitted, and I'm not going to overclock, but run it at 50MHz... And what about the CLK jumper? 040 or 060? Last edited by 8bitbubsy; 24 February 2010 at 14:47.

24 February 2010, 20:06	#40
Chain A-Collector, repairments Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Czech Rep. Age: 50 Posts: 1,536	resistor should be at GND pad, as default jumper goes to 060 of course also try it without ram stick first, as apollo is pretty picky (you can leave ram jumper on, as it autodetects 0mb )

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Cyberstorm Mk-III 060 - 060, 040 dummy libs	Akiko	support.Apps	1	07 February 2011 20:30
WANTED: Apollo 040	Jimbo	MarketPlace	2	02 September 2010 00:54
Help getting ACT Apollo 060 / Viper 060 and CS060Mk2 - working with ClassicWB ADV	Zetr0	support.Other	30	23 March 2010 15:39
Apollo 040	DyLucke	support.Hardware	4	28 November 2009 12:38
Wanted: MACH131 chip from Apollo 040 or 060	8bitbubsy	MarketPlace	8	29 October 2009 15:55