Best 3d Game Engines For Being Creative With?

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

Well if you expect the game to run in a decent frame rate in 1*1 full screen on a 68030/50 you'll be disappointed obviously but It seems to me a bit of an excessive demand.

And my flying statements was when compared to the original version that was struggling even with the lowest settings, not to 2024 players expectations.

Well ok, but unless stated otherwise I would say full screen 1*1 would be the obvious default to compare across engines. We all know its possible to play Quake on a 040 if you shrink it down to thumbnail size :-)
So if you say it flies, you should elaborate the degree of compromize to get there. Its a wide range of parsmeters that can be different.

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

Well ok, but unless stated otherwise I would say full screen 1*1 would be the obvious default to compare across engines. We all know its possible to play Quake on a 040 if you shrink it down to thumbnail size :-)
So if you say it flies, you should elaborate the degree of compromize to get there. Its a wide range of parsmeters that can be different.

The difference between AB3D2 and Quake being that Team17 was aiming a broad range of Amiga users (and unfortunatly failed, the basic version is even inferior to the first AB3D). This is something the Karlos/Abu mod corrected.

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

Well ok, but unless stated otherwise I would say full screen 1*1 would be the obvious default to compare across engines. We all know its possible to play Quake on a 040 if you shrink it down to thumbnail size :-)
So if you say it flies, you should elaborate the degree of compromize to get there. Its a wide range of parsmeters that can be different.

Agreed, I mean you can say something flies and mean when it's shrunk down to the size of a pixel


I think I do quite well on the options, I can get away with full detail in AB3D2. But shrinking the viewing screen to say look like a letter box just until the point where you can still see your gun but it is no longer as much on screen. That is optimum setting for me as it still looks good and as with that letter box format it doesn't feel weird because that's how our eyes see etc.

However 100mhz over clock is required and 15-25fps is decent enough for me anyways. Any lower though and I would not bother really.

Can I just throw out there that Genetic Species is a good candidate for an engine. It can be run on a 040 I think. So much fun with a 060 full detail etc in lo res mode which still looks great.

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

Agreed, I mean you can say something flies and mean when it's shrunk down to the size of a pixel


I think I do quite well on the options, I can get away with full detail in AB3D2. But shrinking the viewing screen to say look like a letter box just until the point where you can still see your gun but it is no longer as much on screen. That is optimum setting for me as it still looks good and as with that letter box format it doesn't feel weird because that's how our eyes see etc.

However 100mhz over clock is required and 15-25fps is decent enough for me anyways. Any lower though and I would not bother really.

Can I just throw out there that Genetic Species is a good candidate for an engine. It can be run on a 040 I think. So much fun with a 060 full detail etc in lo res mode which still looks great.

I agree about the 100MHz part, i only have one such system A4000) though, my two 1200s 50 and 66 MHz 060 are not quite enough for a good experience.
I had a 030 when the game came out back in the day but when I got the 060 I replayed it and I remember it wasnt really playable in 1*1 but 1*2 or 2*1 was mostly ok with the lower standards one accepted back then.

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

Agreed, I mean you can say something flies and mean when it's shrunk down to the size of a pixel


I think I do quite well on the options, I can get away with full detail in AB3D2. But shrinking the viewing screen to say look like a letter box just until the point where you can still see your gun but it is no longer as much on screen. That is optimum setting for me as it still looks good and as with that letter box format it doesn't feel weird because that's how our eyes see etc.

However 100mhz over clock is required and 15-25fps is decent enough for me anyways. Any lower though and I would not bother really.

Can I just throw out there that Genetic Species is a good candidate for an engine. It can be run on a 040 I think. So much fun with a 060 full detail etc in lo res mode which still looks great.

No way you have to shrink the screen size to a letter box to play the new patched AB3D2 on a 68030/50.
That is overly exagerated I personnally play on full screen with 2*2 pixel and have great fun with it.

[abu_the_monkey]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

No way you have to shrink the screen size to a letter box to play the new patched AB3D2 on a 68030/50.
That is overly exagerated I personnally play on full screen with 2*2 pixel and have great fun with it.

you must mean 1*2 (2*2 is not implemented in the new builds of the AB3D2 engine yet)

for me 10-12 fps is probably playable, others may disagree

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by abu_the_monkey

you must mean 1*2 (2*2 is not implemented in the new builds of the AB3D2 engine yet)

for me 10-12 fps is probably playable, others may disagree

So it is even better than I thought.

Is there a Whd version soon to be released ? That's a pity that the version available in Game Nostalgia doesn't have your fixes. I'm pretty sure many would enjoy to discover a playable version of this game.

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

No way you have to shrink the screen size to a letter box to play the new patched AB3D2 on a 68030/50.
That is overly exagerated I personnally play on full screen with 2*2 pixel and have great fun with it.

Yeah but it's not a tiny Letter box, it just looks like cinemascope.

I don't play in anything other than 1*1 so yes way

It's a decent experience. I just can't let up on the quality being reduced that much.

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

Yeah but it's not a tiny Letter box, it just looks like cinemascope.

I don't play in anything other than 1*1 so yes way

It's a decent experience. I just can't let up on the quality being reduced that much.

That's your convenience. But AB3D2 was first designed to be played in a broad range of definition. The 1*1 full screen one being the cherry on the cake for a limited range of Amiga users.
They would'nt even bothered to make a stock 2MB A1200 version either way.

But I assure you, having played the game back then and now, on the same configuration, the improvement is stunning.

Same thing could be said for TFX. The released version was almost unplayable on any Amiga, even very expanded, when the newly patched is greatly improved and runs on a tolerable setup.

[abu_the_monkey]

@sokolovic

They did make a version for a stock A1200 and it was terrible.

[d4rk3lf]

Funny how you all attacked sokolovic, just because he said it's flying.

Originally Posted by sokolovic

The game fly with a 68030/50mhz.

Wait.. you mean like this?

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by abu_the_monkey

@sokolovic

They did make a version for a stock A1200 and it was terrible.

Yes my english is bad. I was saying that they actually done a version for stock A1200 which proves that they weren't aiming only at high end Amiga users.

[Karlos]

Originally Posted by abu_the_monkey

@sokolovic

They did make a version for a stock A1200 and it was terrible.

It was a mess. I am sure they would have gotten more mileage out of reusing the original engine and baking in an alternative set of assets (or better still allow those to be loaded).

[Karlos]

2024 FPS players have very different ideas about acceptable frame rates than those of us who remember Doom and Quake at launch do.

[d4rk3lf]

Originally Posted by Karlos

2024 FPS players have very different ideas about acceptable frame rates than those of us who remember Doom and Quake at launch do.

Very true.
I remember thinking that Breathless was quite playable on my stock A1200.
And you know what? It was to certain extend.. if you go lowest quality, reduce size of the screen by half, you could play it actually.
Lucky for me that I had gigantic CRT old TV for my A1200, so decreasing size by half, was still like 14'' monitor.


Btw... I haven't idea you can even run Quake at 030/50, let alone, play it... that's amazing achievement... Once again, I am impressed with our bellowed Amiga.
Was there attempts trying Quake on 386DX/40?

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by Karlos

It was a mess. I am sure they would have gotten more mileage out of reusing the original engine and baking in an alternative set of assets (or better still allow those to be loaded).

It was the definition of ”lazy optimization”. Ppl saw fully textured AB3d then the sequel runs with no textures on floor or ceiling..

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by Karlos

2024 FPS players have very different ideas about acceptable frame rates than those of us who remember Doom and Quake at launch do.

Yes, but there are limits connected to gameplay. Its hard to aim fast if fps is in single digits.
I was probably pretty happy with 12 fps on a crt.

Today ppl play CS2 at 180 fps and have 140Hz screens and still complain ;-)

[Karlos]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

Yes, but there are limits connected to gameplay. Its hard to aim fast if fps is in single digits.
I was probably pretty happy with 12 fps on a crt.

Today ppl play CS2 at 180 fps and have 140Hz screens and still complain ;-)

That's because they refuse to accept the limit isn't the monitor it's human reaction time and persistence of vision

[d4rk3lf]

Originally Posted by Karlos

That's because they refuse to accept the limit isn't the monitor it's human reaction time and persistence of vision

... and aging... that also some, refuse to accept.

[Karlos]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

Yes, but there are limits connected to gameplay. Its hard to aim fast if fps is in single digits.
I was probably pretty happy with 12 fps on a crt.

Today ppl play CS2 at 180 fps and have 140Hz screens and still complain ;-)

If you can't defeat AB3D2 levels at 10-15 FPS, you should just not play it. You are dealing with fundamentally slow enemies and projectiles