Removing yellowing from Amigas with peroxide - Page 19

tonyyeb · 05 February 2009, 12:21

@Dimlow

That is a good return. Im guessing your H202 wasn't very strong? Hence the extra time required?

Merlin · 05 February 2009, 13:21

I think he said he used 6%, which would explain why it is a bit slower than other people's examples. That is still an impressive result though for just over a day. Slower is better as there is less risk of damaging the plastic surface and creating the 'bloom' we have seen with stronger peroxide solutions.

10 to 15% seems to be the "sweet spot" for the strength of the hydrogen peroxide, which, coincidentally, is around the 12% sold for hair bleaching that is probably the strongest you can buy over the counter.

Dimlow · 05 February 2009, 15:30

OPSSR. it was 12%

Merlin · 09 February 2009, 21:31

OK, the Wiki said we would start is finally in progress, link to it here:-

http://retr0bright.wikispaces.com/

I'll be working on the science bits this weekend....

14 February 2009, 23:49

I've been reading the "yellowing removal" thread on here and AtariAge forum. The one thing I can't figure out is exactly which product I need to buy at Sally Beauty Supply. I was in there today but the employees pointed me to "developers" that have other chemicals aside from the hydrogen peroxide. Someone please post a picture or clear product brand name of the exact item I need to buy when I walk into Sally.

Thanks...

Merlin · 15 February 2009, 00:52

@ MaXKillZ

Here's the bottle you should be looking for.

I've updated the Wiki with some of the science behind it; hopefully it's not too heavy a read, as I could probably write a dissertation / thesis on this by now.

15 February 2009, 02:13

Is that the exact bottle that Sally Beauty Supply sells in the United States? If I go to www.sallybeauty.com and type "peroxide" in the search, the closest thing I get is this, which contains WATER ,HYDROGEN PEROXIDE ,PHOSPHORIC ACID:

Is the Phosphoric Acid safe for the plastic?

rkauer · 15 February 2009, 03:39

Yes, it is.

15 February 2009, 03:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkauer

Yes, it is.

"Yes, it is the exact same bottle..." or "Yes, phosphoric acid is safe on plastic..." ?

Merlin · 15 February 2009, 12:50

@ MaXKiLLz

Hydrogen peroxide is more stable under slightly acid conditions. so they add a small amount so that it doesn't degrade so quickly on the shelf.

It will be absolutely fine; the alkaline materials in the Oxy will neutralise the traces of acid when you come to use it anyway.

It's 100% OK to use.

By the way, rkauer is a plastics engineer who helped us with this project, via his extensive knowledge of plastics; if anyone should know besides me, it will be him. The untapped knowledge in these forums is incredible....

rkauer · 15 February 2009, 23:58

The available quantities of acid on "Sally's" kind of peroxide are safe.

Here in Banana-land we have only the 30% + vaseline kind of hair bleach (ready for use). I use it as the same as English peroxide + xantam gum, even for case "clarification". Any neutral engrossing material can be used instead gum.

16 February 2009, 06:07

rkauer and Merlin, thank you for the helpful information and clarification. I will revisit Sally and buy some 30 volume and mix it with xanthum gum.

17 February 2009, 15:45

Okay, I made the mix:

1 pint Hydrogen Peroxide (Sally 30 Volume)
1 teaspoonful xanthan gum
1/2 teaspoonful Oxy
1 teaspoonful glycerine

and applied it to my Atari 800's case. I've got it out back. Nice sunny day today. One thing I'm wondering. Do I need to keep brushing on more of the mixture when the treated areas appear to be drying up? It doesn't stay wet very long. Does it continue to be effective even when it appears dry?

Thanks

Merlin · 17 February 2009, 16:16

If it's drying out that much, I would touch up the dried areas or maybe put it into the shade; you have more than enough UV in Florida, your problem is actually the heat drying the water off. Lorne of VCF had the same issue in Arizona as did Tezza in New Zealand.

It can still work in a limited way when it's dry, however, you should keep it wetted if possible.

Let's see a picture before and after day 1 and assess if you need to treat it again first.

17 February 2009, 17:59

I'm really concerned now. I had my Atari 800 case outside for 2.5 hours with the correct mixture and I'm getting some strange results. Take a look. The darker areas match the inside of the case perfectly. The much lighter areas are almost white. Have I ruined this my removing the case color completely in those light areas? Please tell me there is some way to reverse this or that it's just residue. I've washed the plastic with mild dish soap and warm water, with no improvement.

18 February 2009, 18:09

I soaked it overnight in a mix of water and Mr.Clean Multi-Surfaces Liquid Cleaner. No improvement. Magic Eraser is the only thing that improved it at all. Here's a closeup photo, be sure to click on it to see it larger. Notice how the white residue is mostly in the pits and valleys of the A8's texture. If Magic Eraser could reach those areas, I'm sure it would remove it. Any ideas? Any chemicals I can use that would be safe on the plastic yet remove this?

chiark · 21 February 2009, 22:15

I've just done a few more things - 128 from Scrappysphinx, and my 1000 mouse.

Tip 1: make sure what you are cleaning is mechanically clean. Dishwashers are good. I did the 128 without cleaning it first, and it wasn't great. So I put it in the dishwasher, and did it again. Perfect

Tip 2: Sunlight seems much, much, much better than a UV light. I suspect heat might help a little... The 128 took about 4 hours in northern sunlight to be perfect

. The mouse took overnight with a 15w energysaver UV bulb from maplins... And wasn't nearly as good!

Tip 3: Arrowroot works

. Use a microwave

.

Tip 4: 9% h2o2 available from amazon for about 5 quid for 3 bottles, delivered. Max 3 bottles per order.

I'm putting the keys into soak now... Pics later

Magno Boots · 21 February 2009, 22:54

I've taken advantage of today's sunshine also

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Incredeeeebler!! The pictures do not do it justice.

I was one of the original testers on this thread and had some great results with 3 & 6% solutions (although taking at least two weeks to whiten) but the new solution I have recently purchased transformed the above in four hours of sunlight.

No oxy, no thickeners, no UV lamps and no blenders this time.

Infact I wouldn't recommend using a blender at all due to the H&S aspect.

What I bought is an 18% cream off the bay. Slap it on, add sunlight and be careful.

Magno

chiark · 22 February 2009, 22:24

Keys aren't going so well, but I haven't dishwashered them... Don't want to risk rubbing off the graphic characters on the front of them.

Will leave them overnight with the lamp and see what happens

Merlin · 23 February 2009, 09:10

The characters on the keys are laser etched and shouldn't come off, although you may see some feathering around the edges of the characters.

14 February 2009, 23:49	#365
MaXKiLLz Posts: n/a	I've been reading the "yellowing removal" thread on here and AtariAge forum. The one thing I can't figure out is exactly which product I need to buy at Sally Beauty Supply. I was in there today but the employees pointed me to "developers" that have other chemicals aside from the hydrogen peroxide. Someone please post a picture or clear product brand name of the exact item I need to buy when I walk into Sally. Thanks... Last edited by MaXKiLLz; 15 February 2009 at 00:13.

15 February 2009, 02:13	#367
MaXKiLLz Posts: n/a	Is that the exact bottle that Sally Beauty Supply sells in the United States? If I go to www.sallybeauty.com and type "peroxide" in the search, the closest thing I get is this, which contains WATER ,HYDROGEN PEROXIDE ,PHOSPHORIC ACID: Is the Phosphoric Acid safe for the plastic? Last edited by MaXKiLLz; 15 February 2009 at 02:19.

21 February 2009, 22:54	#378
Magno Boots Zone Friend Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 688	I've taken advantage of today's sunshine also Incredeeeebler!! The pictures do not do it justice. I was one of the original testers on this thread and had some great results with 3 & 6% solutions (although taking at least two weeks to whiten) but the new solution I have recently purchased transformed the above in four hours of sunlight. No oxy, no thickeners, no UV lamps and no blenders this time. Infact I wouldn't recommend using a blender at all due to the H&S aspect. What I bought is an 18% cream off the bay. Slap it on, add sunlight and be careful. Magno Last edited by Magno Boots; 21 February 2009 at 23:26. Reason: trade name removed

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05 February 2009, 12:21	#361
tonyyeb Has the Amiga bug again Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Hull, UK Age: 43 Posts: 791	@Dimlow That is a good return. Im guessing your H202 wasn't very strong? Hence the extra time required?

05 February 2009, 13:21	#362
Merlin AmiBay MegaMod Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Age: 62 Posts: 1,163	I think he said he used 6%, which would explain why it is a bit slower than other people's examples. That is still an impressive result though for just over a day. Slower is better as there is less risk of damaging the plastic surface and creating the 'bloom' we have seen with stronger peroxide solutions. 10 to 15% seems to be the "sweet spot" for the strength of the hydrogen peroxide, which, coincidentally, is around the 12% sold for hair bleaching that is probably the strongest you can buy over the counter.

05 February 2009, 15:30	#363
Dimlow Likes to be thought of as Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kent,UK Age: 55 Posts: 529	OPSSR. it was 12%

09 February 2009, 21:31	#364
Merlin AmiBay MegaMod Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Age: 62 Posts: 1,163	OK, the Wiki said we would start is finally in progress, link to it here:- http://retr0bright.wikispaces.com/ I'll be working on the science bits this weekend....

15 February 2009, 00:52	#366
Merlin AmiBay MegaMod Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Age: 62 Posts: 1,163	@ MaXKillZ Here's the bottle you should be looking for. I've updated the Wiki with some of the science behind it; hopefully it's not too heavy a read, as I could probably write a dissertation / thesis on this by now.

15 February 2009, 03:39	#368
rkauer I hate potatos and shirts Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil Age: 58 Posts: 3,482	Yes, it is.

15 February 2009, 12:50	#370
Merlin AmiBay MegaMod Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Age: 62 Posts: 1,163	@ MaXKiLLz Hydrogen peroxide is more stable under slightly acid conditions. so they add a small amount so that it doesn't degrade so quickly on the shelf. It will be absolutely fine; the alkaline materials in the Oxy will neutralise the traces of acid when you come to use it anyway. It's 100% OK to use. By the way, rkauer is a plastics engineer who helped us with this project, via his extensive knowledge of plastics; if anyone should know besides me, it will be him. The untapped knowledge in these forums is incredible....

15 February 2009, 23:58	#371
rkauer I hate potatos and shirts Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil Age: 58 Posts: 3,482	The available quantities of acid on "Sally's" kind of peroxide are safe. Here in Banana-land we have only the 30% + vaseline kind of hair bleach (ready for use). I use it as the same as English peroxide + xantam gum, even for case "clarification". Any neutral engrossing material can be used instead gum.

16 February 2009, 06:07	#372
MaXKiLLz Posts: n/a	rkauer and Merlin, thank you for the helpful information and clarification. I will revisit Sally and buy some 30 volume and mix it with xanthum gum.

17 February 2009, 15:45	#373
MaXKiLLz Posts: n/a	Okay, I made the mix: 1 pint Hydrogen Peroxide (Sally 30 Volume) 1 teaspoonful xanthan gum 1/2 teaspoonful Oxy 1 teaspoonful glycerine and applied it to my Atari 800's case. I've got it out back. Nice sunny day today. One thing I'm wondering. Do I need to keep brushing on more of the mixture when the treated areas appear to be drying up? It doesn't stay wet very long. Does it continue to be effective even when it appears dry? Thanks

17 February 2009, 16:16	#374
Merlin AmiBay MegaMod Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Age: 62 Posts: 1,163	If it's drying out that much, I would touch up the dried areas or maybe put it into the shade; you have more than enough UV in Florida, your problem is actually the heat drying the water off. Lorne of VCF had the same issue in Arizona as did Tezza in New Zealand. It can still work in a limited way when it's dry, however, you should keep it wetted if possible. Let's see a picture before and after day 1 and assess if you need to treat it again first.

17 February 2009, 17:59	#375
MaXKiLLz Posts: n/a	I'm really concerned now. I had my Atari 800 case outside for 2.5 hours with the correct mixture and I'm getting some strange results. Take a look. The darker areas match the inside of the case perfectly. The much lighter areas are almost white. Have I ruined this my removing the case color completely in those light areas? Please tell me there is some way to reverse this or that it's just residue. I've washed the plastic with mild dish soap and warm water, with no improvement.

18 February 2009, 18:09	#376
MaXKiLLz Posts: n/a	I soaked it overnight in a mix of water and Mr.Clean Multi-Surfaces Liquid Cleaner. No improvement. Magic Eraser is the only thing that improved it at all. Here's a closeup photo, be sure to click on it to see it larger. Notice how the white residue is mostly in the pits and valleys of the A8's texture. If Magic Eraser could reach those areas, I'm sure it would remove it. Any ideas? Any chemicals I can use that would be safe on the plastic yet remove this?

21 February 2009, 22:15	#377
chiark Needs a life Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 1,707	I've just done a few more things - 128 from Scrappysphinx, and my 1000 mouse. Tip 1: make sure what you are cleaning is mechanically clean. Dishwashers are good. I did the 128 without cleaning it first, and it wasn't great. So I put it in the dishwasher, and did it again. Perfect Tip 2: Sunlight seems much, much, much better than a UV light. I suspect heat might help a little... The 128 took about 4 hours in northern sunlight to be perfect . The mouse took overnight with a 15w energysaver UV bulb from maplins... And wasn't nearly as good! Tip 3: Arrowroot works . Use a microwave . Tip 4: 9% h2o2 available from amazon for about 5 quid for 3 bottles, delivered. Max 3 bottles per order. I'm putting the keys into soak now... Pics later

22 February 2009, 22:24	#379
chiark Needs a life Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 1,707	Keys aren't going so well, but I haven't dishwashered them... Don't want to risk rubbing off the graphic characters on the front of them. Will leave them overnight with the lamp and see what happens

23 February 2009, 09:10	#380
Merlin AmiBay MegaMod Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Age: 62 Posts: 1,163	The characters on the keys are laser etched and shouldn't come off, although you may see some feathering around the edges of the characters.

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