What Makes The Amiga CD32 The Best Amiga? - Page 17

d4rk3lf · 04 January 2021, 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

I like David Pleasance. But he couldn't be more wrong about the FMV games phase back then. Nobody wanted this pixelated video interactive crap.

I love him too, and he is wrong, not only back then, but today.

I watched lot's of his (recent) interviews, and first of all, he admit that he never ever used Amiga. How can he discuss what Amiga is capable of, and what not?
He praises Vampire cards, for totally wrong things. He is saying like: "With Vampire you can emulate A1000, A500, A2000, A3000...) and it's standing in the pocket... that's amazing".
Well, you can do that with mobile phone too David, and with Raspberry Pi.
I am not saying he shouldn't praise Vampire (let's not start debate over that now), and I like Vampire, but he is praising it over totally wrong things.

He just don't understand very simple technical stuff, and what Amiga was all about, and even noob like me can see that.

He was great in selling Amigas back then, but I'd very hesitate to take his opinion on everything Hardware (and even Software) Amiga.

S0ulA55a551n · 04 January 2021, 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

I love him too, and he is wrong, not only back then, but today.

I watched lot's of his (recent) interviews, and first of all, he admit that he never ever used Amiga. How can he discuss what Amiga is capable of, and what not?
He praises Vampire cards, for totally wrong things. He is saying like: "With Vampire you can emulate A1000, A500, A2000, A3000...) and it's standing in the pocket... that's amazing".
Well, you can do that with mobile phone too David, and with Raspberry Pi.
I am not saying he shouldn't praise Vampire (let's not start debate over that now), and I like Vampire, but he is praising it over totally wrong things.

He just don't understand very simple technical stuff, and what Amiga was all about, and even noob like me can see that.

He was great in selling Amigas back then, but I'd very hesitate to take his opinion on everything Hardware (and even Software) Amiga.

What do you expect he is salesman nothing more. Doesn't have a clue about technology

d4rk3lf · 04 January 2021, 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by S0ulA55a551n

What do you expect he is salesman nothing more. Doesn't have a clue about technology

I do a FX stuff for my living, but I still know how to cook.

Don't get me wrong, the above is no attack on David.
I like Pleasance. I like his charisma.
I think he did incredible stuff for the Amiga, and I enjoy listening his interviews.
I'd gladly drink a beer with him, if I have chance.

However, I was replying to Gilbert, that I would take David opinion on hardware, with huge reserve.

jotd · 04 January 2021, 23:19

Seems that this thread is nevertheless improving. Good.

Foebane · 05 January 2021, 00:05

Gilbert really ought to stop posting serially, I've been told off for that. A user on EAB should only post once an hour, combining several quotes as necessary, unless replies come sooner.

Foebane · 05 January 2021, 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by edd_jedi

as adults we sometimes forget that children (which we all were when we had Amigas) don't want to feel left out.

Speak for yourself, I was 18 BEFORE I got my first Amiga! Probably explains why I was disappointed with the games from the start, mostly, and why the Demoscene was more interesting to me in using the abilities of my new computer.

S0ulA55a551n · 05 January 2021, 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

However, I was replying to Gilbert, that I would take David opinion on hardware, with huge reserve.

I was agreeing with you

FOL · 05 January 2021, 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foebane

Speak for yourself, I was 18 BEFORE I got my first Amiga! Probably explains why I was disappointed with the games from the start, mostly, and why the Demoscene was more interesting to me in using the abilities of my new computer.

Born 8 years to early,

.

Gilbert · 05 January 2021, 16:25

I read all your posts but I agree with DP. I think he is a true genius and a luminary. For starters all the Amiga developers at the time were saying the CD32 couldn't do Doom but he knew it could - and now in 2020 we even have Doom on the A500 (not to mention a ZX Spectrum version) and there was even a 90s version of Duke Nukem 3D on the Megadrive. David Pleasance knew the CD32 "could ******* do Doom!"

Here's why FMV is important: think of the FMV games the CD32 could have had : Mad Dog McCree, Dragon's Lair, Road Avenger, Seventh Guest, various space rail shooters, and many more. Maybe we aren't big fans of those games but they could have impressed the hell out of people in shops and increased the CD32 user base. There could have been first-person FMV dating sims for ladies. Women love that stuff. The next thing you know they would be playing Simon The Sorceror on the side.

Also would you have removed FMV capability from the PS1? No, because it was a huge part of the experience. Some of the FMV intros were amazing and the Final Fantasy games wouldn't have been the same without it. I remember beating Tekken 3 with each character and enjoying the cool FMV endings for each one. Back then FMV was exciting to see. There was a reason "The Walker" demo on Amiga was enjoyed!

Some PS1 games actually used FMV in gameplay e.g. Final Fantasy 8 and Fear Effect (1 and 2) for animated 3D backgrounds. So FMV was an extra string on CD32's already well strung bow. Think of Bandersnatch on Netflix too. The CD32 was truly an Amiga for the future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foebane

Gilbert really ought to stop posting serially, I've been told off for that. A user on EAB should only post once an hour, combining several quotes as necessary, unless replies come sooner.

Foebane and Moderators : Rules of EAB only apply to Gilbert
Meanwhile : Gilbert (a CD32 owner) gets called mentally ill and an an idiot
Foebane and Moderators : Silence....

I am busy enjoying my CD32 just now - so I won't be posting so much anyway.

str0m · 05 January 2021, 16:39

fyi Road Avenger, Time Gal and others are available thanks to the work of Earok

S0ulA55a551n · 05 January 2021, 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilbert

I read all your posts but I agree with DP. I think he is a true genius and a luminary. For starters all the Amiga developers at the time were saying the CD32 couldn't do Doom but he knew it could - and now in 2020 we even have Doom on the A500 (not to mention a ZX Spectrum version) and there was even a 90s version of Duke Nukem 3D on the Megadrive. David Pleasance knew the CD32 "could ******* do Doom!"

Here's why FMV is important: think of the FMV games the CD32 could have had : Mad Dog McCree, Dragon's Lair, Road Avenger, Seventh Guest, various space rail shooters, and many more. Maybe we aren't big fans of those games but they could have impressed the hell out of people in shops and increased the CD32 user base. There could have been first-person FMV dating sims for ladies. Women love that stuff. The next thing you know they would be playing Simon The Sorceror on the side.

Also would you have removed FMV capability from the PS1? No, because it was a huge part of the experience. Some of the FMV intros were amazing and the Final Fantasy games wouldn't have been the same without it. I remember beating Tekken 3 with each character and enjoying the cool FMV endings for each one. Back then FMV was exciting to see. There was a reason "The Walker" demo on Amiga was enjoyed!

Some PS1 games actually used FMV in gameplay e.g. Final Fantasy 8 and Fear Effect (1 and 2) for animated 3D backgrounds. So FMV was an extra string on CD32's already well strung bow. Think of Bandersnatch on Netflix too. The CD32 was truly an Amiga for the future.

Foebane and Moderators : Rules of EAB only apply to Gilbert
Meanwhile : Gilbert (a CD32 owner) gets called mentally ill and an an idiot
Foebane and Moderators : Silence....

I am busy enjoying my CD32 just now - so I won't be posting so much anyway.

The CD32 cannot run a version of Doom anyone wants to play. with a 030 and some ram it can run it in postage stamp at 11 fps.

Konrad · 05 January 2021, 17:57

Gilbert, DP is a sales person, so of course he advertised the cd32 in such a manner. He needed to sell those. But that doesn't make it true what he says.
To be objective in a discussion you have to take facts. Everyhing else is just wishful thinking.

A base Amiga and CD32 still can't do DOOM. Of course you can modify the levels, lesser enemies, no floor+ceiling textures, and at some point you have it running smooth. Does that still count as DOOM ? No.
Does the ZX Spectrum version count as DOOM ? No. Technical impressive, but no.
If you argue like that you could also play DOOM on an Atari 2600. Just a blocky face on the bottom resembling the DOOM-Marine -> Done.

The only way to get the same enjoyment of DOOM on Amiga is with accellerated/expanded systems. That's still true today. And this also counts for the CD32. A base CD32 can't play DOOM. No. Not with the quality that it's a serious competition to PC. It's simply wrong what DP said, this was marketing talk.

I bought Trapped, Trapped 2, AB3D2-TKG, Breathless, Nemac IV.
Breathless and Nemac IV I enjoyed very much. Also they ran really well on my 68040-40 with CV64/3D. Still no match to DOOM.

Regarding "Duke Nukem 3D" for the Genesis/Megadrive: I hope you don't mean that pointless romhack, which has gameplay-wise nothing to do with the original ?!

---

FMV was a sensation for some time, beging something new, not seen before. But not worth the effort, which is why it died quickly on aall platforms. Even PC, and there you had the best attempts (f.ex. Wing Commander 3).

FOL · 05 January 2021, 18:19

Why does every one bang on about doom and all the other rubbish.
I think they are complete rubbish, waste hardware use. Everytime an amigan starts a discussion, they get it excited about DOOM. Seriously I do not get it.

d4rk3lf · 05 January 2021, 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilbert

CD32 couldn't do Doom but he knew it could

No it couldn't.
It can maybe run some clone of Doom, in some acceptable frame rate, if coded by few geniuses over a few years, and using every possible trick that can be used.
But if you apply that logic, then we could assume that Doom clone (that runs fast) could also be developed for 386/DX40, also using a every possible trick.

CD32 was just not good enough for the time (same goes to A1200).
68020 was pretty much obsolete, and Aga chipset was Okay-ish, but nothing revolutionary.
If C= made CD32 architecture more like the Playstation style (and I've heard some Amiga engineers worked on PS (or at least, PS "borrowed" some Amiga designb ideas), then we could maybe say it's the best Amiga (again - maybe).

For me, the best Amiga (back then) is some A4000/060, lot's of Ram + RTG, if we count raw power.
If we count date of release, and everything else, then it's gotta be A500, or A1000.

CD32 (in my opinion) is way behind CDTV, because CDTV was also very ahead of it's time. So much ahead, that it was it's Doom (people and developers just didn't know what to do with it).

Konrad · 05 January 2021, 18:32

@FOL
There's more to gaming than Doom.
I answered to Gilbert, who brought it into discussion saying this is possible on a CD32. My answer shows that it's not serious to take what DP says/said.

d4rk3lf · 05 January 2021, 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by FOL

Why does every one bang on about doom and all the other rubbish.
I think they are complete rubbish, waste hardware use. Everytime an amigan starts a discussion, they get it excited about DOOM. Seriously I do not get it.

I am with you on this.

Doom is a great game, but I personally (and people I knew), we were never that impressed with it. I personally think that they failed in texture department, because lot's of textures didn't make any sense neither logically, neither visually.

FOL · 05 January 2021, 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

I am with you on this.

Doom is a great game, but I personally (and people I knew), we were never that impressed with it. I personally think that they failed in texture department, because lot's of textures didn't make any sense neither logically, neither visually.

Could just be, I found girls more interesting by then.

d4rk3lf · 05 January 2021, 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by FOL

Could just be, I found girls more interesting by then.

And girls was more impressed with Pang (that looks great on Amiga), then Doom.

FOL · 05 January 2021, 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

And girls was more impressed with Pang (that looks great on Amiga), then Doom.

, pang, that was fun.

spudisgood · 05 January 2021, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilbert

There are many reasons but for me it was the multi-button controller (for bespoke games meant no more pressing up on joystick to jump) combined with no disk-swapping

Just a much better experience all round

How about for everyone else?

Well to me seems underpowered, basically an A1200 with a CD drive and no keyboard/mouse. Games look no better than what was then current-gen 16-bit consoles such as the Super Nintendo and the games that were available seem to be existing A500 games with a few more colours and CD audio.

If you want an example of how Commodore should have gone about 32-bit CD-based games console look no further than the Sony PlayStation. I would even rate the Atari Jaguar above CD32 in terms of performance and I think it was more popular too. CD32 to me seems to be like the C64 console, an attempt to cash in and make some money when times were desperate financially. They should have avoided it altogether and concentrated on getting a AAA/Hombre based Amiga out to replace the underpowered A1200.

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04 January 2021, 23:19	#324
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,360	Seems that this thread is nevertheless improving. Good.

05 January 2021, 00:05	#325
Foebane Banned Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Cardiff, UK Age: 51 Posts: 2,871	Gilbert really ought to stop posting serially, I've been told off for that. A user on EAB should only post once an hour, combining several quotes as necessary, unless replies come sooner.

05 January 2021, 16:39	#330
str0m Registered User Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Newcastle, UK Posts: 269	fyi Road Avenger, Time Gal and others are available thanks to the work of Earok

05 January 2021, 17:57	#332
Konrad Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Germany Age: 43 Posts: 743	Gilbert, DP is a sales person, so of course he advertised the cd32 in such a manner. He needed to sell those. But that doesn't make it true what he says. To be objective in a discussion you have to take facts. Everyhing else is just wishful thinking. A base Amiga and CD32 still can't do DOOM. Of course you can modify the levels, lesser enemies, no floor+ceiling textures, and at some point you have it running smooth. Does that still count as DOOM ? No. Does the ZX Spectrum version count as DOOM ? No. Technical impressive, but no. If you argue like that you could also play DOOM on an Atari 2600. Just a blocky face on the bottom resembling the DOOM-Marine -> Done. The only way to get the same enjoyment of DOOM on Amiga is with accellerated/expanded systems. That's still true today. And this also counts for the CD32. A base CD32 can't play DOOM. No. Not with the quality that it's a serious competition to PC. It's simply wrong what DP said, this was marketing talk. I bought Trapped, Trapped 2, AB3D2-TKG, Breathless, Nemac IV. Breathless and Nemac IV I enjoyed very much. Also they ran really well on my 68040-40 with CV64/3D. Still no match to DOOM. Regarding "Duke Nukem 3D" for the Genesis/Megadrive: I hope you don't mean that pointless romhack, which has gameplay-wise nothing to do with the original ?! --- FMV was a sensation for some time, beging something new, not seen before. But not worth the effort, which is why it died quickly on aall platforms. Even PC, and there you had the best attempts (f.ex. Wing Commander 3).

05 January 2021, 18:19	#333
FOL PSPUAE DEV Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Wales / UK Age: 45 Posts: 6,040	Why does every one bang on about doom and all the other rubbish. I think they are complete rubbish, waste hardware use. Everytime an amigan starts a discussion, they get it excited about DOOM. Seriously I do not get it.

05 January 2021, 18:32	#335
Konrad Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Germany Age: 43 Posts: 743	@FOL There's more to gaming than Doom. I answered to Gilbert, who brought it into discussion saying this is possible on a CD32. My answer shows that it's not serious to take what DP says/said.

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