Amiga questions you've always been too embarrassed to ask

[gkb]

Thanks TCD.
Looks like my standard issue A500 with the 512k of ram would have no use for these programs.
I remember clicking on the icons, and nothing happening - from what you have posted I can see why now.
I think I might have looked the programs up in the workbench manual briefly, shrugged my shoulders and moved on to the next thing.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by gkb

I remember clicking on the icons, and nothing happening - from what you have posted I can see why now.

I think we all did at one point I blame it on the rabbit

[Jope]

Originally Posted by TCD

https://ftp.fau.de/aminet/docs/help/A500UserGuide.pdf on page 11 & 12:

In addition to that description, running FastMemFirst is almost mandatory on a 1.3 machine with trapdoor fast and real fast. It adjusts the memory priorities so that real fast is allocated first and trapdoor fast second.

[Weasel Fierce]

If a program expects a mouse and a joystick is plugged in, you can wiggle the mouse pointer by waggling the stick but it wont move.

Can someone explain like Im a dumb-dumb why I cant move the mouse pointer with the joystick?

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by Weasel Fierce

If a program expects a mouse and a joystick is plugged in, you can wiggle the mouse pointer by waggling the stick but it wont move.

Can someone explain like Im a dumb-dumb why I cant move the mouse pointer with the joystick?

If you manage to move the stick in just one direction and back to the middle (without triggering the opposite direction) repeatedly and fast enough, you can move the mouse - at least very slowly

[NLS]

Originally Posted by Weasel Fierce

If a program expects a mouse and a joystick is plugged in, you can wiggle the mouse pointer by waggling the stick but it wont move.

Can someone explain like Im a dumb-dumb why I cant move the mouse pointer with the joystick?

The Amiga mouse uses the four direction signals (of the joystick) as "pulses".
So it is really the tiniest of movements and as Gorf says if you managed to SUPER fast go to a direction and back to center (and NOT trigger any other direction) many times a second you can probably move the mouse in a direction slowly.

Of course you can use the keyboard to move the pointer... I am sure you know that, right?

[Weasel Fierce]

Originally Posted by NLS

The Amiga mouse uses the four direction signals (of the joystick) as "pulses".
So it is really the tiniest of movements and as Gorf says if you managed to SUPER fast go to a direction and back to center (and NOT trigger any other direction) many times a second you can probably move the mouse in a direction slowly.

Of course you can use the keyboard to move the pointer... I am sure you know that, right?

I appreciate it
Im familiar with the keyboard short cuts, I was just curious why it doesnt work on a basic level.

[Daedalus]

Yup, to elaborate, the mouse uses the joystick direction pins on the port for its direction signals, but the format is totally different. The joystick can only say whether each direction (up, down, left or right) is active or not, so it doesn't have a notion of speed in any particular direction. The mouse instead uses pulses on 2 pins for horizontal movement and pulses on the other 2 pins for vertical movement, allowing the X and Y components of the movement to be independently controlled. The speed of these pulses on these pairs of pins determine the speed of the mouse movement in the horizontal or vertical direction, and how the pulses overlap on the two pins in a pair determine the direction.

Because the same pins are used for both protocols and there are no definitive ways of telling them apart, neither the hardware nor the OS can reinterpret joystick signals to emulate a mouse. It can be done in software of course, but not automatically.

If memory serves, the pins chosen for the pairs of direction pulse signals mean that rolling the joystick clockwise overlaps the pulses from the stick and can slowly move the mouse down and right, and reversing the rotation can slowly move it up and left.

[Thomas Richter]

Originally Posted by Gorf

If you manage to move the stick in just one direction and back to the middle (without triggering the opposite direction) repeatedly and fast enough, you can move the mouse - at least very slowly

I doubt this. The quadrature encoding of the mouse requires the interpretation of the mouse pulse (e.g. left) if the quadrature impulse is coming (e.g. right). As left-right is the horizontal pulse and horizontal quadrature, and up-down is the corresponding vertical pair, you would need to move the joystick both to left *AND* right simultaneously to have some control on the direction.

In particular, at a rising flank for the pulse signal, the quadrature signal is evaluated whether the mouse pointer moves left or right, depending on its value. On the falling flank of the pulse signal, the quadrature signal is also read, but interpreted in the inverse way. Thus, with just pressing the joystick left or right, no continuous movement of the mouse is possible at all since the corresponding second signal does not alter.

[Weasel Fierce]

Thanks gang.

Another oddity:

Is it normal that the keyboard three finger reset sometimes "hangs" when the system has crashed?

When the system is running normally hitting the reset is pretty much instant, but when the system has puked and crashed, sometimes I have to hit it a few times or hold it for a minute.

I've read a few threads talking about hardware concerns that could result in the reset not working reliably but that seems to be applicable all the time and it works perfectly under normal circumstances.

That may sound obvious but this IS the thread for embarrassing questions

[shelter]

Originally Posted by Torti-the-Smurf

There is a version 4.16 but that version some supid bugs.

What bugs?

BTW, I miss keyboard support in DOpus, like using the arrow keys to move up and down and tab to switch panes, is that possible?

[NLS]

Originally Posted by Thomas Richter

I doubt this. The quadrature encoding of the mouse requires the interpretation of the mouse pulse (e.g. left) if the quadrature impulse is coming (e.g. right). As left-right is the horizontal pulse and horizontal quadrature, and up-down is the corresponding vertical pair, you would need to move the joystick both to left *AND* right simultaneously to have some control on the direction.

In particular, at a rising flank for the pulse signal, the quadrature signal is evaluated whether the mouse pointer moves left or right, depending on its value. On the falling flank of the pulse signal, the quadrature signal is also read, but interpreted in the inverse way. Thus, with just pressing the joystick left or right, no continuous movement of the mouse is possible at all since the corresponding second signal does not alter.

I distinctly remember being able to slowly (and erratically) move the pointer when moving the controller fast - I don't remember how, maybe circling it. Point is, it is possible to do it in a way that it makes movement.
And of course people can try.
(I cannot right now)

[shelter]

Originally Posted by Weasel Fierce

Thanks gang.

Another oddity:

Is it normal that the keyboard three finger reset sometimes "hangs" when the system has crashed?

When the system is running normally hitting the reset is pretty much instant, but when the system has puked and crashed, sometimes I have to hit it a few times or hold it for a minute.

I've read a few threads talking about hardware concerns that could result in the reset not working reliably but that seems to be applicable all the time and it works perfectly under normal circumstances.

That may sound obvious but this IS the thread for embarrassing questions

That's normal. If something brings down the system very badly it can take a moment for the Amiga to register a reset from the keyboard so you have to hold the keys down longer.

[Weasel Fierce]

Originally Posted by shelter

That's normal. If something brings down the system very badly it can take a moment for the Amiga to register a reset from the keyboard so you have to hold the keys down longer.

okay thats reassuring, thanks

[wiz12]

On some motherboards there's a "Burn In" sticker usually stuck on one of the rear ports, anyone know what that means?

[zipper]

Yes, mine did need over 10 seconds after a bad crash.

[Jope]

Originally Posted by wiz12

On some motherboards there's a "Burn In" sticker usually stuck on one of the rear ports, anyone know what that means?

They insert a disk with a repeating self test program on it, and forget the machine on a shelf overnight.

[thomas]

Originally Posted by Weasel Fierce

Is it normal that the keyboard three finger reset sometimes "hangs" when the system has crashed?

That's a feature. It allows the operating system to run a reset handler before the actual reset happens.

Of course if the handler has crashed or the system has crashed in a way that the handler cannot run, then it just sits there waiting. The delay can be up to 10 seconds, then the reset happens regardless of any handler.

http://aminet.net/package/disk/salv/DiskSafe is an example which utilizes this feature. The archive also contains a test program which shows a countdown after you pressed Ctrl-A-A.

[Weasel Fierce]

Originally Posted by thomas

That's a feature. It allows the operating system to run a reset handler before the actual reset happens.

Of course if the handler has crashed or the system has crashed in a way that the handler cannot run, then it just sits there waiting. The delay can be up to 10 seconds, then the reset happens regardless of any handler.

http://aminet.net/package/disk/salv/DiskSafe is an example which utilizes this feature. The archive also contains a test program which shows a countdown after you pressed Ctrl-A-A.

Interesting.
So theres a "backup" system that basically overrides or supersedes the handler if the handler is also broken?

[Thomas Richter]

Yes, indeed. It is a hardware feature of the keyboard that generates the reset after 10 secs, even if the "reset warning" has not been answered.