20 April 2022, 00:04 | #301 | ||
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USB - yes, for sure it will be beneficial but WiFi? how if many modern WLAN chipsets require DSP/security support from main CPU? |
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20 April 2022, 06:19 | #302 |
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@pandy - I believe you don't have that much knowledge about specific chips.
https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/...S70005304E.pdf that's how you can do things and it will work all right on even 8 bit microcontrollers. Because there's already fairly powerful MCU offloading specific tasks from main processor. As for software graphic pipeline I think you don't realize how much computational power does it take. It's absolutely impractical even on modern CPUs, it's a suicide on Apollo Core. Remember - lack of dedicated units means basically everything except texture mapping and alpha blending has to be done by CPU which is rather slow. Q3 used "shaders" which were calculated by CPU. Those were rather simple ones and even that is beyond capabilities of AC68080. There's no "what if" - it can't do those things fast enough and with decent resolution. It surely can't do VK things which requires access and processing of even more massive amount of data along the pipeline and VK is implicitly designed to make use of multicore architecture (so performance scales better with number of CPU cores, even fairly slow ones, as long as there are many where in amiga there is only 1). What you can expect from Maggie is something you would see on Saturn or PS1. And that's mighty impressive in it's own way. But as mentioned you can't expect someone to write new 3D games using bare metal approach for V4 and newer - there might be single digit number of small games or more like a demos but that's that. To reach for more you'll have to follow with standards and that's why Warp3D was developed - to expose 3d capabilities of P96-compatible 3d cards and use MiniGL so minimalistic OpenGL implementation capable of running games. And Warp3D is amiga standard (mainly - because there's no other). There aren't many 3D games for Amiga. Most are ports. There aren't many new ports because 3d accel atm works only with Permedia on BlizzardPPC and VooDoo3 in Mediator/G-Rex/Prometheus (which makes it rather unique and rare combo nowadays). Also - in 68k world 060 isn't backing GPU good enough (and PCI interfaces have their own problems to deal with). That's not the problem with Apollo cards. There's faster CPU, no such silly limitations of data transfers between CPU and GPU. The same applies to e.g. PiStorm. So we might see a flood of new 3D titles as long as RPI 3d capabilities are exposed to AOS and as long as Maggie follows established amiga standards for 3d interface. |
20 April 2022, 21:27 | #303 | ||||
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20 April 2022, 22:08 | #304 | |||
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@Bruce
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So I ask you now - do you honestly believe there will be any significant number of native and exclusive to amiga 3d titles using maggie? Not reworks, remasters, ports. Brand new, either bare metal or whatever API they apply. |
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20 April 2022, 22:51 | #305 |
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@pandy71
I don't disagree but, if history is any guide, the Vulkan API will be abstracted... it's just that, right now, either people haven't found the right abstraction(s) or people are just too busy using the low-level API. |
21 April 2022, 01:26 | #306 | |||
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All of them are 1x1, 2.4GHz, 20MHz BW. No 5GHz, no AX (and this mean that at some point you will be forced to provide dedicated infrastructure only for Amiga). Quote:
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At some point RPi or Maggie can be state of the art in Amiga 3D world. |
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21 April 2022, 01:31 | #307 | |
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But for today seem Vulkan is quite appreciated by customers and developers. |
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21 April 2022, 04:27 | #308 | |||
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@pandy
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Last edited by Promilus; 21 April 2022 at 05:41. |
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21 April 2022, 08:16 | #309 |
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Indeed, I am thinking of swapping the Voodoo 3 in my Amiga with a Radeon because there isn't anything very Amiga-y for me to play. 95% of the games are PC ports and I already have a Win9x PC next to the 4000. These games just feel more natural to be played on their original platform.
Literally the only developed from scratch Amiga 68k Warp3D game I can see is Payback? |
21 April 2022, 09:54 | #310 | |
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And those we have tend to concentrate on the old tried and tested things. Which is only natural. Unfortunately for most people it doesn't make much sense to spend hundreds of hours of their hobby time to create stuff only for people who happen to have a V4 if you could reach most Amiga users if you code something for vanilla AGA&OCS machines up to 68030 with some fast RAM (I'd guess). But everybody is free to spend their time on whatever they like, so YMMV off course... |
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22 April 2022, 00:57 | #311 | |||
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2.4GHz is very busy part of spectrum, it is shared by many participants and as Amiga will be not impacted due overall low requirements then other participant may be affected. Quote:
I fully understand that this is not problem for Amiga unless you start using something like WPA3. My point was to show that if you can accept some WLAN NIC limitations then perhaps Maggie can be accepted also - perhaps it is not modern 3D GPU but still better than nothing. Also i see Maggie as living proof of concept that Commodore could propose something like this way earlier and as such perhaps it could at least try to extend own and Amiga existence. Quote:
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24 April 2022, 14:45 | #312 |
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From Apollo site:
Maggie renders rhino turnable: [ Show youtube player ] |
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