23 April 2019, 23:25 | #3161 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 2,958
|
Listen to Trixster, he speaks the truth.
As far as which PPC cards it goes: Ragnarok Sonnet 400/1M or Killer NIC K1 Ragnarok I don't change anything between them except for the MMU-Configuration. The ENV Variables should be mostly the same as on the wiki: https://github.com/Sakura-IT/SonnetA...ki/Good-Config I use Picasso 2.1e (unofficial) OS 3.9 BB2+a bit of BB3 and BB4 On the Sonnet/KillerNIC system I use A4000 IDE. The other systems I use the accelerator onboard SCSI. Swap is open, that should be good. I can't seem to find Dnetc on Aminet, I swore I got it there. There was something Stedy was saying that the PCI spec expects either termination or a card in the last PCI slot. Last edited by grelbfarlk; 23 April 2019 at 23:36. |
24 April 2019, 09:50 | #3162 |
Guru Meditating
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: England
Posts: 2,354
|
Also, Amigas with lots of cards - zorro and pci - are fickle and sometimes the pursuit of stability defies logic. My system had a 1 month period where it required maybe 10 minutes without the ppc card running in order to ‘warm up’. If i initialised the ppc immediately and then ran anything with warp3d I would get a crash or lockup. Pure WarpOS software ran fine. Wrangler and I spent a lot of time dismantling the system to try and trouble-shoot the problem. Then inexplicably the problem went away. It has been rock solid for the last 9 or so months.
Maybe it was a power issue? Maybe noise on a line? It was unlikely a problem with the Ragnarok or the sonnet.library as WarpOS ran fine. So maybe a problem with the voodoo3? However I tried a spare voodoo3 and that exhibited the same problem. Ultimately I made no real changes to the system and it just fixed itself. So who knows? |
25 April 2019, 01:16 | #3163 | ||
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 46
Posts: 733
|
Quote:
PCI is the only reflective wave switched bus (google it) and to meet the timing requirements, you need to damp the signals down using diode clamping. You can add parts to do this or use a PCI card. Apparently Dell fixed a server PC that had issues by fitting a cheap USB card. Quote:
If you have an oscilloscope or logic analyser, you could take some measurements. Basically the +5V, +3.3V, +1.8V (bridge supply) and the CPU core all need to be operational within a 50ms window and stable for 100us+ before reset de-asserts. Last edited by Stedy; 25 April 2019 at 01:16. Reason: Forgot to quote trixster |
||
25 April 2019, 10:52 | #3164 |
Semi-Retired
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Leiden / The Netherlands
Posts: 2,039
|
@Stedy:
Not completely related, but does your knowledge also extend to video cards and can you say what is wrong if a video card starts up garbled in lets say a quarter of the cases? I was thinking of a memory PLL/timing initialization error. Can it here also be though that the driver initializes it too slow? The code seems to work correctly on PPC but not on 68k. |
25 April 2019, 16:39 | #3165 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Italy
Posts: 225
|
I'm trying to solve the problem, but it's not easy; in any case I'm installing amigaos 3.9 from scratch, step by step, but I want to ask you for important information right away, for the order in which to insert the PCI cards in the mediator 4000D 3v with 5 PCI slots.
I have the following PCI cards available: - two Voodoo3 PCI video cards (3000 and 2000) - two PowerPC PCI cards (killer M1 @ 400 and K1 @ 333) - some SB128 sound cards (CT4810) - a PCI Fortemedia FM801-AS sound card - two ethernet cards RTL 8100C PCI 10/100 - an RTL 8139C PCI 10/100 ethernet card - some DFE-538TX PCI 10/100 ethernet cards - an RTL 8029AS PCI 10 ethernet card - a Nec USB card PCI (not Elbox flashed) - an Adaptec AHA-2940UW SCSI card PCI - several other PCI cards (USB, SCSI, firewire, parallel, ethernet, modem, gfx virge ..etc ..) I should therefore terminate the PCI chain, filling all the 5 PCI slots and I would be interested to have: - a Voodoo3 gfx, a PowerPC Killer, an ethernet card, a sound card, while the fifth card would not matter So in what order do you recommend in which to insert the five PCI cards in the mediator 4000D 3v with 5 PCI slots ? and which cards do you recommend to insert ? (if the order of the cards and the number of cards is important to correctly terminate the PCI BUS) thank you all for your help |
25 April 2019, 16:41 | #3166 |
Guru Meditating
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: England
Posts: 2,354
|
I would place the voodoo in the lowest (first) slot and the ppc card in the top (last) slot, and leave the remaining 3 slots empty for the moment.
|
25 April 2019, 20:46 | #3167 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Italy
Posts: 225
|
so Is it important to "terminate" the bus in this way (a card in the first PCI slot (PCI1) and another card in the fifth PCI slot (PCI5)) does it act as a terminator for the PCI BUS ?
Unfortunately it is not possible to use the Voodoo3 PCI or even the Killer M1 in the first PCI slot (PCI1) due to the heat sink that comes in contact with the Elbox PCI-Zorro3 card. Do I leave the Killer M1 alone and put the Killer K1 in the first PCI slot (PCI1) and the Voodoo3 in the fifth PCI slot (PCI5) , or Do I put another card in the first PCI1 slot (exemple the USB card, or other ones ...) and the Killer M1 (or K1) in the fifth PCI slot (PCI5) ? Should the PCI cards that terminate the PCI bus be special PCI cards ? That is, must they be bus mastering, DMA ... cards or have addressing in sharing ... ? |
26 April 2019, 00:44 | #3168 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 46
Posts: 733
|
Quote:
|
|
26 April 2019, 01:05 | #3169 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 46
Posts: 733
|
Quote:
I have developed graphics cards for the embedded market. Don't know about the latest cards but Voodoo cards and Radeon 95xx are older tech, some of my knowledge is relevant. The speed of initialisation should not matter too much. Normally you pre-load a number of registers then hit a 'go' bit or similar to initiate an init portion. This is especially true of the SDRAM on the graphics card. Normally the controller will help correctly initialise the RAM, there are minimum timing requirements for the RAM, the only maximum time would be RAM refresh related but you can be out by a factor of 2 and still work. What do you mean by a garbled display? Do you see any recognisable text or graphics? Are there any horizontal or vertical lines in the display? Does the graphics driver report any errors? Do you know how the graphics driver identifies the card type and initialises it? Do cards with 128MB work fine but ones with 64 or 256MB fail or vice versa? Ooh, is it specific to Radeon or Voodoo cards? As the 68K and PowerPC are both big endian, we can disregard any big/little endian byte swaps to the GPU. That has caused some confusion in the past A good test, is once you've initialised the card, to perform a memory test on the card. Look for the memory mapped Based Address Register (BAR) with >1MB allocated, then read/write chunks of data to it. This is typically the framebuffer used for the display. Sorry for so many questions but there are a lot of variables. |
|
26 April 2019, 01:13 | #3170 | |||
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Italy
Posts: 225
|
Quote:
Quote:
for convenience and space I could put in the first PCI slot (PCI1) a card any USB, or ethernet, or audio (from what I saw, from pciinfo, only the USB PCI card shares the interrupts, is it possible?), while in the fifth slot PCI (PCI5) I could put any PCI card. So what should be tried to insert in PCI1 and in PCI5? Quote:
where is the PCI microcontroller ? in the PCI-Zorro Elbox card ? thanks |
|||
26 April 2019, 02:51 | #3171 |
Semi-Retired
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Leiden / The Netherlands
Posts: 2,039
|
What do you mean by a garbled display?
Looks like the video ram is corrupted. Things can be made out, sometimes it is 70% garbled sometimes almost not. It is not static, dots move around. Do you see any recognisable text or graphics? yes Are there any horizontal or vertical lines in the display? no, it looks like corrupted video ram. Does the graphics driver report any errors? no Do you know how the graphics driver identifies the card type and initialises it? it reads the bios and initializes the card with the values found there (not through x86 emulation). Do cards with 128MB work fine but ones with 64 or 256MB fail or vice versa? All cards exibit the same behaviour. With the Elbox driver, no such corruption is seen. With this driver it happens like in 1 out of 3 boots. Ooh, is it specific to Radeon or Voodoo cards? Radeon As the 68K and PowerPC are both big endian, we can disregard any big/little endian byte swaps to the GPU. That has caused some confusion in the past I don't think this is the problem here. A good test, is once you've initialised the card, to perform a memory test on the card. Look for the memory mapped Based Address Register (BAR) with >1MB allocated, then read/write chunks of data to it. This is typically the framebuffer used for the display. I could make a screenshot when the screen isn't garbled badly enough so I can still see things. Let's see what that does. |
26 April 2019, 03:21 | #3172 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 2,958
|
Quote:
Yes you'll end up with the USB sharing interrupts no matter what unless you only have 3 PCI devices, but it seems to work. I have Spider in slot 1 and 10MB Ethernet in Slot 5(as only the 10MB card works in OS4 with CSPPC). And I don't think the 10MB card needs PCIDMA memory to work, which I think that's why it works on OS4. In the 4 slot Mediator the USB will end up sharing with something anyway, but keep in mind the USB is not really very useful for much, just mass storage devices like USB readers and input devices like mouse/keyboard which you can't use during early startup. Also many non official Spider USB cards are flaky, yes they might appear to work, some will not work in in Hispeed mode, so will be limited to <1MB/s, they may crash, intermittently initialize, on and on. I have a couple with seem to work fine but I have several which do not. I will regret saying this, as many people will probably tell me I'm wrong, but I think everyone is using the MMUlib, are you? Have you tried that? Last edited by grelbfarlk; 27 April 2019 at 03:44. |
|
27 April 2019, 01:21 | #3173 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 2,958
|
Here's some system details that might be of use to somebody. This is for the five slot Ragnarok system:
PCIINFO Code:
Pci Device 1: VendorID: $1033 VendorName: NEC Electronics DeviceID: $35 DeviceName: udp9210 Dual OHCI controllers plus Single EHCI controller ClassCode: $c0310 RevisionID: $41 InterruptPin: 1 SubsystemVendorID: $1033 SubsystemID: $35 MemSpace0: $60000000 - $60000fff Pci Device 2: VendorID: $1033 VendorName: NEC Electronics DeviceID: $35 DeviceName: udp9210 Dual OHCI controllers plus Single EHCI controller ClassCode: $c0310 RevisionID: $41 InterruptPin: 2 SubsystemVendorID: $1033 SubsystemID: $35 MemSpace0: $60100000 - $60100fff Pci Device 3: VendorID: $1033 VendorName: NEC Electronics DeviceID: $e0 DeviceName: uPD720100A USB 2.0 Host Controller ClassCode: $c0320 RevisionID: $2 InterruptPin: 3 SubsystemVendorID: $ee4 SubsystemID: $89e MemSpace0: $60200000 - $602000ff Pci Device 4: VendorID: $1319 VendorName: Forte Media DeviceID: $801 DeviceName: FM0801 PCI Card MediaForte made in singapore ClassCode: $40100 RevisionID: $b2 InterruptPin: 2 SubsystemVendorID: $1319 SubsystemID: $1319 IOSpace0: $40c06000 - $40c0607f Pci Device 5: VendorID: $1319 VendorName: Forte Media DeviceID: $802 DeviceName: FM801-as Xwave PCI Joystick ClassCode: $98000 RevisionID: $b2 InterruptPin: 0 SubsystemVendorID: $1319 SubsystemID: $1319 IOSpace0: $40c06100 - $40c0610f Pci Device 6: VendorID: $121a VendorName: 3dfx Interactive Inc DeviceID: $5 DeviceName: Voodoo3 All Voodoo3 chips, 3000 ClassCode: $30000 RevisionID: $1 InterruptPin: 3 SubsystemVendorID: $121a SubsystemID: $57 MemSpace0: $62000000 - $63ffffff MemSpace1: $64000000 - $65ffffff IOSpace2: $40c06200 - $40c062ff RomSpace: $60300000 - $6030ffff Pci Device 7: VendorID: $1057 VendorName: Motorola DeviceID: $480b DeviceName: Unknown ClassCode: $60000 RevisionID: $2 InterruptPin: 4 SubsystemVendorID: $0 SubsystemID: $1057 MemSpace0: $60400000 - $60400fff MemSpace1: $60500000 - $60500fff MemSpace2: $70000000 - $7fffffff MemSpace3: $60600000 - $6063ffff MemSpace4: $68000000 - $6fffffff Pci Device 8: VendorID: $10ec VendorName: Realtek Semiconductor DeviceID: $8029 DeviceName: RTL8029(as)pci ethernet nic windot XPse ClassCode: $20000 RevisionID: $0 InterruptPin: 1 SubsystemVendorID: $10ec SubsystemID: $8029 IOSpace0: $40c06300 - $40c0631f Code:
ClearTTx SetCacheMode from 0x07000000 size 0x08F80000 Copyback ;SetCacheMode from 0x70480000 size 0x0FA7FFFF CacheInhibit SetCacheMode from 0x60400000 size 0x00000FFF CacheInhibit SetCacheMode from 0x60500000 size 0x00000FFF CacheInhibit SetCacheMode from 0x60600000 size 0x0003FFFF CacheInhibit ;SetCacheMode from 0x68480000 size 0x03A7FFFF CacheInhibit ;SetCacheMode from 0x68480000 size 0x1797FFFF CacheInhibit SetCacheMode from 0x00000000 size 0x00200000 CacheInhibit NonSerial Imprecise SetCacheMode from 0x64D00000 size 0x00200000 CacheInhibit P5Init Code:
MuScan 46.1 (02.07.2016) © THOR 68060 MMU detected. MMU page size is 0x1000 bytes. Memory map: 0x00000000 - 0x001FFFFF CacheInhibit Imprecise NonSerial 0x00200000 - 0x00BBFFFF Blank 0x00BC0000 - 0x00BFFFFF CacheInhibit I/O space 0x00C00000 - 0x00D7FFFF Blank 0x00D80000 - 0x00DFFFFF CacheInhibit I/O space 0x00E00000 - 0x00EFFFFF Blank 0x00F00000 - 0x00F00FFF CacheInhibit 0x00F01000 - 0x00F21FFF CacheInhibit I/O space 0x00F22000 - 0x00F7FFFF CacheInhibit 0x00F80000 - 0x00FFFFFF ROM CopyBack Remapped to 0x0FEE4000 0x01000000 - 0x06FFFFFF Blank 0x07000000 - 0x0801DFFF CopyBack 0x0801E000 - 0x08020FFF CacheInhibit 0x08021000 - 0x0FEE3FFF CopyBack 0x0FEE4000 - 0x0FF63FFF ROM CopyBack 0x0FF64000 - 0x0FF7FFFF CopyBack 0x0FF80000 - 0x0FFFFFFF CacheInhibit 0x10000000 - 0x3FFFFFFF Blank 0x40000000 - 0x40FFFFFF CacheInhibit I/O space 0x41000000 - 0x5FFFFFFF Blank 0x60000000 - 0x7FFFFFFF CacheInhibit I/O space 0x80000000 - 0xFFEFFFFF Blank 0xFFF00000 - 0xFFF7FFFF CacheInhibit 0xFFF80000 - 0xFFFFFFFF Blank P96 Vars Code:
AlertSupport=Yes AmigaVideo=31kHz AreaEndSupport=Yes BlackSwitching=No Debug=No DirectColorMask=Yes DisableAmigaBlitter=No DoNotSetMMU=No EnableBootVGA=No Experimental=No PlanarOnlyDIPFDBUF=No PlanesToFast=No ShowModes=All |
28 April 2019, 14:02 | #3174 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 46
Posts: 733
|
@Hedeon
Can you get a screenshot or photo of the screen when the graphics driver misbehaves? A RAM error is a strong possibility here. A photo of the screen can help identify some common RAM errors. The earlier Radeon cards don't have microcode/shaders running from the GPU framebuffer so the failure mode is a bit more subtle. |
28 April 2019, 16:31 | #3175 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Italy
Posts: 225
|
Quote:
"The version of SetPatch you are using is unknow to the installation script and cannot be updated, sorry. Please try to download the 43.6 edition, or buy OS 3.5 to get 44.xx editions" I tried everything ... my setpatch 44.38 (not..), 44.16 (os3.9 not..), 44.13 (os3.9 not), 44.2 (os3.9 not and os3.5 not), 43.6 (os3.5 not), 43.6beta (aminet not) ... I have found only this about this problem of MMULib install https://forum.amiga.org/index.php?topic=64734.0 I'd like to try MMULib with WarpEngine040 but no way at the moment ... Other question ... I reinstalled everything from scratch, OS3.9 + BB1 + BB2 base, Picasso96 2.1b and driver / libraries of Elbox's mediator, but I always have the same problem ... can I use the latest Sonnet powerpc.library version also in WB3.1 or is it necessary to use OS3.9 ? Other question ... setting VoodooMemOS=Yes variable there are problems (crash, reboot ..etc ..) trying to use video modes 16 BE (example opening a screenmode monitor amiga in 640x480 16bit or 800x600 16bit), while there is not this problem using PC LE resolutions (example opening screenmode monitor amiga in 640x480 16bit PC or 800x600 16bit PC) (I think "640x480 16bit" is BE = big endian, while "640x480 16bit PC" is LE = little endian, is It correct ? And is the variable "VoodooMemOS=Yes" strictly necessary to use PPC Killer M1/K1 correctly ? or not and I can use correctly PPC Killer M1/K1 with "VoodooMemOS=No" ? Last edited by drluking; 28 April 2019 at 16:37. |
|
28 April 2019, 16:54 | #3176 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London, UK
Posts: 419
|
If you have followed the set up instructions on the wiki step by step and you're still getting crashes, you're problem is poor power distribution to the cpu IMHO. You may need to try a different ATX adapter or a 5v injector into the Zorro slot (be very careful!!!)
Stick with LE video modes as they're more compatible. Duke Nukem should play nicely on your setup. Warcraft 2 via Stratagus might be a bit of a challenge. |
28 April 2019, 23:21 | #3177 |
Semi-Retired
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Leiden / The Netherlands
Posts: 2,039
|
ANY switch from what you started in (being it LE or BE screenmode) will corrupt the memory list when VoodooMemOS=yes. This is not related to powerpc.library. This is because the voodo gfx mem holds a memory header and when switched from LE to BE or vice versa, the memory header also gets switched (corrupted). Any request for CHIP memory will give a guru as the CHIP memory header is mostly the last node in the memory list. The guru should be memory list corrupt (81000005).
Just set it to 'no'. |
29 April 2019, 01:13 | #3178 | ||
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Italy
Posts: 225
|
Quote:
Quote:
Will be possibile to use two PSU, or Is It dangerous for the A4000 ? the AT 200W psu connected only with P9 AT to the mediator 4000D 3v and the ATX 550W psu connected to the A4000 mainboard and hd/cdrom/floppy. If It's possibile, I should first turn on the AT 200W (to power on the mediator) and then the ATX 550W to power on the A4000, or they should be turned on at the same time ? I'm not sure if it is possible, also because if I remember correctly, if only the P9 AT turns on, it also partially powers the Amiga 4000 ... (+ 5V, but not + 12V) |
||
29 April 2019, 01:29 | #3179 | ||
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Italy
Posts: 225
|
Quote:
Quote:
ok when I run "voxelspace G" and select 320x240 8 bit, Is It LE or BE ? About "VoodooInt=Yes" is it necessary for the correct functioning of the ppc M1 / K1 cards, or I can disable it ? About "VoodooMem=13" is it OK, or better "Voodoo3=12" ? considering also the variable "VoodooMemOS=No" I have also read an interesting thing here https://github.com/Sakura-IT/SonnetA...ki/Good-Config I have not the varabiles "Terminator" and "Force" for the powerpc.library in my ENV:Mediator/ directory ... Do I need them ? If I need them, I will have to set Terminator=2 and Force=1 (using only sonnet powerpc.library and not ppc.library emulation) OR I will have to set Terminator=0 and Force=1 (using sonnet powerpc.library and also ppc.library emulation) ? |
||
29 April 2019, 01:34 | #3180 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 2,958
|
Ignore Terminator=2 and Force=1 those are from the CSPPC config. You don't need these variables.
VoodooInt=Yes YES you want this, otherwise Warp3D will be slow and crashy. |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (1 members and 3 guests) | |
pat_ctrl |
Thread Tools | |
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
WANTED: PCI Sound Card VORTEX2 SuperQuard / SQ2500 or Turtlebeach SantaCruz pci card | keropi | MarketPlace | 12 | 15 March 2017 02:48 |
Wanted:Sonnet Technologies QuadDoubler 50 (Doubler 4000) | kronuz | MarketPlace | 0 | 16 June 2013 00:29 |
eBay : Sonnet Quaddoubler | alexh | MarketPlace | 3 | 07 May 2013 00:50 |
Overlay problem on GeForce 7200 | Leandro Jardim | support.WinUAE | 1 | 10 August 2010 15:50 |
Prometheus PCI & Voodoo 3 PCI GFX Card | Slayer | support.Hardware | 21 | 05 September 2006 10:57 |
|
|