Removing yellowing from Amigas with peroxide - Page 15

TheCorfiot · 11 October 2008, 17:18

@Merlicious,

That is absolutly stunning, & I love the way that the Commodore 64 Badge is still perfectly intact & Colourful....

A great Inspiration to all things Retr0

TC

Merlin · 11 October 2008, 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetr0

as much as I love the Kudo's my friend it was merlicious that came up with "Retr0-brite"

i just added a zero '0' instead of an 'o'

@Merlicious

you can submit this on OHIM have a read up as this can give you a community trade mark for the product m8.

if you need help let me know and I will see what I can do

I think we should, can you start to get the wheels turning on this. Give me a call if you need any support....thanks.

M

Eclipse · 11 October 2008, 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin

The results......

I've posted the results of how the gel foams up, it is quite controllable. The pictures taken after two, four and six hours show how the yellowing is gradually removed. The case could probably do with another dose but this is enough to show that even severe discolouring can be reversed in quite a short space of time.

Impressive, huh?

That's awesome!
Sell me some.

Merlin · 11 October 2008, 19:13

@ Eclipse

If I could secure a supply of H2O2, neat TAED and xanthan gum that would sell to me, I would. I could supply a kit of the liquid H2O2, along with the powdered TAED and xanthan gum mixture to be added and mixed just before use.

(I'm writing this concept here, just in case someone else has the cute idea of beating me to it; just don't, OK? If I find out someone does, I may sue your arse to the ground, LOL).

Graham Humphrey · 11 October 2008, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetr0

@Moderators

this thread needs sticking NOW!!!!!

Due to popular demand (and the sheer awesomeness of this thread, great stuff) and as I'm nice, I think I'll do just that

Merlin · 11 October 2008, 21:17

Thanks Graham, much appreciated; not just by me, but by all who have contributed to this project.

Charlie · 11 October 2008, 21:29

My silly remarks aside I've been quietly following this thread with much interest. Having looked @ Merlin's latest photos all I can say is:

Damn me that's one hell of a result!

I'm very keen on the idea of a gel-preparation & am pleasantly surprised to see the foaming effect doesn't seem to have caused any patchiness.

@Merlin:
Do you think this is 'it'?
I'm wondering if for further 'user-friendliness' some kind of anti-foaming agent might be added...
...stuff that's added to some carpet cleaners..?

Props to everyone who's come up with this stuff.

Oh, and thanks for making the thread as sticky, Graham.

Merlin · 11 October 2008, 22:17

@ Charlie

The ideal would be to do away with the 'Oxy' and use neat TAED, although I don't think that the average Joe can buy this chemical. This wouldn't foam anywhere near as much and should make for a more placid gel, although it may still foam a bit as the gel won't release air that quickly. TAED isn't soluble in water above 1.5 grammes per litre, so you wouldn't need much.

TAED is added to a lot of laundry detergents these days besides the 'Oxy' products and the market for the supply will be dominated by people like Proctor & Gamble etc., so use for such a niche application like this probably won't get a sniff.

The main reason I did such an extreme test was to firstly silence the critics from other forums (fora?), that said that this was all bullcrap and that the science didn't hold up; you can reproduce the test I did at home yourself, so there's no need for bluffing, and I can explain the science behind this as required, should anyone care to ask.

The second reason was to establish some sort of guide, as to how long it would take to reverse a certain degree of yellowing; I think we've established that most cases would be reversed within eight hours by use of the gel if you use 35% H2O2. If you use weaker H2O2 then it may take a little longer, but hey, 23 years of yellow reversed in 8 hours or so? That has to satisfy those people with short spans of attention....

Adding an antifoam is a nice idea, but may have a counter-productive effect. I've worked on antifoams for various processes over the years, and they are always insoluble in the medium into which they are added and may also contain insoluble particles, so that the Gibbs - Marangoni / Contact Angle effect kicks in (the disruption of surface tension, thus releasing the air from the liquid. This is serious antifoam theory and I could be here for weeks explaining these...I suggest you Wiki them first). The downside of this is that the antifoam may create an effect known as striation or 'fish-eye', the effect you see in hammer-finish paints, and we definitely don't want that on the parts being treated. The best way to reduce foam is to keep detergents to a minimum which is what we have done thus far.

Good question though... science abuse rules, and not one caravan was harmed during this project!!!

twizzle · 12 October 2008, 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin

I think we should, can you start to get the wheels turning on this. Give me a call if you need any support....thanks.

M

@Merlin
glad you have seen the light

on registering Retr0-Brite

mmmm i might become a poet one day

Antiriad · 12 October 2008, 17:57

Man that C64 rocks!!! Merlin you ought to really sell the entire kit (gel and lamp) along with a nice instruction page. If you want a nice vectored Retro Brite logo just let me know ok?

Someone ought to contact Retro Magazine or the retro section of Edge about this methinks...

Merlin · 12 October 2008, 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antiriad

Man that C64 rocks!!! Merlin you ought to really sell the entire kit (gel and lamp) along with a nice instruction page. If you want a nice vectored Retro Brite logo just let me know ok?

Someone ought to contact Retro Magazine or the retro section of Edge about this methinks...

A suitable e-mither, with a taster photograph of the 8-hour C64 test to grab their attention, has been sent to Edge magazine......

Amiga1992 · 13 October 2008, 13:21

Forgive me for not reading the million pages worth of info, but is anyone selling a foam that doe the trick already?

(you know I'm lazy)

Retro: did you EVER get my PM???

tonyyeb · 13 October 2008, 13:24

No one is selling it *just yet*. I expect they might be in the near future. 35% H202 is dangerous stuff so i'm not sure on the permits and so on you may need to sell it. I wont be selling it but i'm sure someone will look into it.

Merlin · 13 October 2008, 13:48

@ tonyyeb

To be honest, 35% H2O2 isn't required; you can get 20% strength from 'Sally' and that will be sufficient for most people and will offer more control of the process. I certainly won't be selling any kits as there is too much liability attached for my liking.

@ Akira

Here's the formula, you lazy git, LOL

Ingredients:-
1 pint Hydrogen Peroxide, at least 20% strength
1 teaspoonful xanthan gum (health food shops or Ebay)
1/2 teaspoonful 'Vanish Oxy Action Plus' (any 'Oxy' laundry booster will do)
1 teaspoonful glycerine

Equipment:-
Gloves and Goggles (Safety First!)
1 UV lamp
Liquidiser or hand blender

Chuck all ingredients except the Oxy into a container and mix until a smooth thick gel is formed. Just before you use it, add the Oxy in by stirring and then brush the mix onto the item to be treated. Stick it under the UV lamp and check regularly until the yellowing has gone.

Oh, and please take photos so we can see the results...

Merlin · 13 October 2008, 17:00

I've now posted about our project on Retro Gamer, let's see if they pick it up and run with it in their magazine.....

tonyyeb · 13 October 2008, 17:25

Slightly off topic but anyone got the Retro Gamer eMag DVD?

@UAE · 17 October 2008, 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magno Boots

BREAKING NEWS!

My A1200 has had the peroxide / oxy / bleach / UV treatment for two weeks with the following results..

Attachment 17333
Nice

Attachment 17334
Grey keys are overcooked. Don't be fooled by the keys still appearing slightly brown in the jar as they whiten whilst drying.

Attachment 17335
Comparison shot

But look at this...

Discoloured mouse soaked in strong solution of bleach and oxy only (no peroxide) for two hours on Sunday evening and left dry all day yesterday in direct sunlight.

Attachment 17336

Attachment 17337

I couldn't believe it

Mango Boots
cannot open attachments

rkauer · 04 November 2008, 22:30

As a matter of fact, the "blondie" peroxide (who have some vaseline mixed in) mixed with TAED don't get spent as time passes like pure H²O².

Another hint for you guys and gals.

01 January 2009, 06:00

What affect does this process have on an aluminium decal? Should it be removed or masked first?

Zetr0 · 01 January 2009, 18:23

@staticmem,

it would clean the dirt off it, thats about all to be honest.

11 October 2008, 22:17	#288
Merlin AmiBay MegaMod Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Age: 62 Posts: 1,163	@ Charlie The ideal would be to do away with the 'Oxy' and use neat TAED, although I don't think that the average Joe can buy this chemical. This wouldn't foam anywhere near as much and should make for a more placid gel, although it may still foam a bit as the gel won't release air that quickly. TAED isn't soluble in water above 1.5 grammes per litre, so you wouldn't need much. TAED is added to a lot of laundry detergents these days besides the 'Oxy' products and the market for the supply will be dominated by people like Proctor & Gamble etc., so use for such a niche application like this probably won't get a sniff. The main reason I did such an extreme test was to firstly silence the critics from other forums (fora?), that said that this was all bullcrap and that the science didn't hold up; you can reproduce the test I did at home yourself, so there's no need for bluffing, and I can explain the science behind this as required, should anyone care to ask. The second reason was to establish some sort of guide, as to how long it would take to reverse a certain degree of yellowing; I think we've established that most cases would be reversed within eight hours by use of the gel if you use 35% H2O2. If you use weaker H2O2 then it may take a little longer, but hey, 23 years of yellow reversed in 8 hours or so? That has to satisfy those people with short spans of attention.... Adding an antifoam is a nice idea, but may have a counter-productive effect. I've worked on antifoams for various processes over the years, and they are always insoluble in the medium into which they are added and may also contain insoluble particles, so that the Gibbs - Marangoni / Contact Angle effect kicks in (the disruption of surface tension, thus releasing the air from the liquid. This is serious antifoam theory and I could be here for weeks explaining these...I suggest you Wiki them first). The downside of this is that the antifoam may create an effect known as striation or 'fish-eye', the effect you see in hammer-finish paints, and we definitely don't want that on the parts being treated. The best way to reduce foam is to keep detergents to a minimum which is what we have done thus far. Good question though... science abuse rules, and not one caravan was harmed during this project!!! Last edited by Merlin; 11 October 2008 at 22:57.

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11 October 2008, 17:18	#281
TheCorfiot Amibay Senior Staff Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Cardiff / Wales Posts: 1,302	@Merlicious, That is absolutly stunning, & I love the way that the Commodore 64 Badge is still perfectly intact & Colourful.... A great Inspiration to all things Retr0 TC

11 October 2008, 19:13	#284
Merlin AmiBay MegaMod Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Age: 62 Posts: 1,163	@ Eclipse If I could secure a supply of H2O2, neat TAED and xanthan gum that would sell to me, I would. I could supply a kit of the liquid H2O2, along with the powdered TAED and xanthan gum mixture to be added and mixed just before use. (I'm writing this concept here, just in case someone else has the cute idea of beating me to it; just don't, OK? If I find out someone does, I may sue your arse to the ground, LOL).

11 October 2008, 21:17	#286
Merlin AmiBay MegaMod Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Age: 62 Posts: 1,163	Thanks Graham, much appreciated; not just by me, but by all who have contributed to this project.

11 October 2008, 21:29	#287
Charlie . . Mouse . . Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Nowhere Age: 55 Posts: 1,792	My silly remarks aside I've been quietly following this thread with much interest. Having looked @ Merlin's latest photos all I can say is: Damn me that's one hell of a result! I'm very keen on the idea of a gel-preparation & am pleasantly surprised to see the foaming effect doesn't seem to have caused any patchiness. @Merlin: Do you think this is 'it'? I'm wondering if for further 'user-friendliness' some kind of anti-foaming agent might be added... ...stuff that's added to some carpet cleaners..? Props to everyone who's come up with this stuff. Oh, and thanks for making the thread as sticky, Graham.

12 October 2008, 17:57	#290
Antiriad The Sacred Armour Of Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Sussex, UK Age: 45 Posts: 1,141	Man that C64 rocks!!! Merlin you ought to really sell the entire kit (gel and lamp) along with a nice instruction page. If you want a nice vectored Retro Brite logo just let me know ok? Someone ought to contact Retro Magazine or the retro section of Edge about this methinks...

13 October 2008, 13:21	#292
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,646	Forgive me for not reading the million pages worth of info, but is anyone selling a foam that doe the trick already? (you know I'm lazy) Retro: did you EVER get my PM???

13 October 2008, 13:24	#293
tonyyeb Has the Amiga bug again Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Hull, UK Age: 43 Posts: 791	No one is selling it just yet. I expect they might be in the near future. 35% H202 is dangerous stuff so i'm not sure on the permits and so on you may need to sell it. I wont be selling it but i'm sure someone will look into it.

13 October 2008, 13:48	#294
Merlin AmiBay MegaMod Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Age: 62 Posts: 1,163	@ tonyyeb To be honest, 35% H2O2 isn't required; you can get 20% strength from 'Sally' and that will be sufficient for most people and will offer more control of the process. I certainly won't be selling any kits as there is too much liability attached for my liking. @ Akira Here's the formula, you lazy git, LOL Ingredients:- 1 pint Hydrogen Peroxide, at least 20% strength 1 teaspoonful xanthan gum (health food shops or Ebay) 1/2 teaspoonful 'Vanish Oxy Action Plus' (any 'Oxy' laundry booster will do) 1 teaspoonful glycerine Equipment:- Gloves and Goggles (Safety First!) 1 UV lamp Liquidiser or hand blender Chuck all ingredients except the Oxy into a container and mix until a smooth thick gel is formed. Just before you use it, add the Oxy in by stirring and then brush the mix onto the item to be treated. Stick it under the UV lamp and check regularly until the yellowing has gone. Oh, and please take photos so we can see the results...

13 October 2008, 17:00	#295
Merlin AmiBay MegaMod Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Age: 62 Posts: 1,163	I've now posted about our project on Retro Gamer, let's see if they pick it up and run with it in their magazine.....

13 October 2008, 17:25	#296
tonyyeb Has the Amiga bug again Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Hull, UK Age: 43 Posts: 791	Slightly off topic but anyone got the Retro Gamer eMag DVD?

04 November 2008, 22:30	#298
rkauer I hate potatos and shirts Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil Age: 58 Posts: 3,482	As a matter of fact, the "blondie" peroxide (who have some vaseline mixed in) mixed with TAED don't get spent as time passes like pure H²O². Another hint for you guys and gals.

01 January 2009, 06:00	#299
staticmem Posts: n/a	What affect does this process have on an aluminium decal? Should it be removed or masked first?

01 January 2009, 18:23	#300
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@staticmem, it would clean the dirt off it, thats about all to be honest.

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