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#281 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Stockholm / Sweden
Posts: 129
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Quote:
In Minimig's implementation, the BLISS signal is used only to count the number of DMA slots that the CPU request to use the slot, but was rejected: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Mini...l/agnus.v#L400 (bls is the BLISS signal). |
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#282 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 703
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Quote:
![]() Nonarkitten's github contains a lot more interesting information besides the Agnus datasheet, including a schematic for the early Agnus (A1000?) but unfortunately the address multiplexer for the CPU is external on that version ![]() So, I think we can be sure of DBR's function: to indicate to Gary when the slot is free. But that also means that Gary does not know what kind of DMA is going on when DBR asserted. It could be bitplanes, audio, blitter etc. So, it is impossible for Gary to "slowdown" the blitter and steal a cycle from Agnus because Gary does not know when a blitter cycle is occuring. Only Agnus knows that. So that leaves the function of BLISS a little unsure although I think it is to indicate to Agnus the CPU will be using the cycle because, as you also noticed, AS/RAMEN/REGEN are not really suitable for that as these might be asserted to early or to late regarding the cycle of relevance. I will do some more measurements when I have time... ![]() |
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#283 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Calgary/Canada
Posts: 247
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Quote:
On the Amiga 1000, there were four clocks each phase shifted. A 45-degree phase shift at 3.5MHz coincides with a single edge of a 14MHz clock. The C4 signal (LATCH) on the Amiga 500/2000 is regenerated using C3 delayed by one 14MHz clock. This is one reason for using 14MHz clock internally. The two LS373's are the read latches, they are transparent when OEL (aka CDR) is high. When CDR is asserted, they attach to the data bus with either the current chip bus data (LATCH is high) or prior chip bus data (LATCH is low). Since LATCH is just C4, it's impossible to read from chip RAM faster than 1/2 the bus speed. |
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#284 |
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Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Calgary/Canada
Posts: 247
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#285 |
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Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Calgary/Canada
Posts: 247
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Side note: the timing diagrams in Gayle (https://github.com/nonarkitten/amiga...ifications.pdf) are MUCH more useful than any other document on there.
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#286 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Stockholm / Sweden
Posts: 129
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Quote:
Then try doing the same thing but with the AS pin disconnected instead. I tried this, and with the BLISS pin disconnected everything works as before. This is consistent with the behavior implemented by Minimig, i.e. that BLISS is only used by Agnus to count how many slots the CPU was blocked, and then prohibit the blitter from using a slot that it would otherwise use. Disconnecting the AS pin makes the Amiga stop working. |
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#287 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 703
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Quote:
I do think that the design is a bit ugly as functions seem to be split between devices. Agnus handles the bus and Gary just handles DTACK. And Agnus should be able to know without BLISS whether it is blocking the CPU right? It almost seems like BLISS is a hack, an afterthought. The whole reason for doing all this probing was that I wanted to have a deeper understanding of why my 14MHz accelerator fails to work with certain E clock phasings. I currently fixed it by latching AS to the 7Mhz clock but I was looking for a cleaner way. I learned a lot ![]() |
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#288 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Calgary/Canada
Posts: 247
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Quote:
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#289 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Calgary/Canada
Posts: 247
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Quote:
BLISS isn't a "hack" it's a feature. Though a clumsy one. Honestly, I always found the whole arbitration to be so over-baked. I think it comes from when the Amiga was still a games console and would never have had "fast RAM" -- BLISS was meant to ensure the CPU always has SOME time, unless you set the nasty bit, which not only locks out the CPU entirely, but was useful for timing (and something WHDload exploits for a lot of game compatibility). Adding Gary's functionality to Agnus would have required a larger package and at 84 PLCC, that was already HUGE for its time. I'm still not sure what this whole obsession with "back to back" means. The latches are controlled by C4, a clock. Not BLIT. Not BLISS. Not the phase of the moon, a clock. It is a perfect 50% split. So if you mean writing in an even then odd cycle from the CPU, then no, that's impossible without a custom Agnus and Gary. Period. Unless you pull the four latches and pop in some 33-ohm series resistors. Have fun with that one. If you mean performing more than one operation within a single cycle, then that's possible as the 68000 is asynchronous. But you'll need a fast CPU, smart controller that uses the OVR signal to control DTACK itself as well as fast-enough chip RAM. By fast enough, I mean 70ns FPM or better. |
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#290 | ||
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Stockholm / Sweden
Posts: 129
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Quote:
Quote:
![]() Happy new year btw! |
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#291 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Los Angeles / USA
Posts: 135
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Hi' how are things going on this project? any clue when some kits will be ready?
Chris |
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#292 |
mä vaan
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 1,692
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#293 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Calgary/Canada
Posts: 247
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Quote:
Not living in a socialist country means I have to work for a living. That means 40+ hours of my week, every week of the year is spent doing my "job" first. Outside of that, I have family to take care of, and sleep to catch up on. Pile on struggling with depression and yes, it's been a slow go. And the last thing I look forward to is an email drop that someone wants to play backseat driver and dump on the project. There's been a lot of work getting the HARDWARE right before the SOFTWARE and since the HARDWARE isn't on the git, you wouldn't be privy to that work and the fact that we're four respins into the latest boards. For the most part, the software is and has been done. Not being an FPGA guru, I've asked for some help and have been stonewalled so far. So be-it, I'll do my best on my own. As I have done for everything else so far. So seriously, go lick an outlet. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also, I've been busy trying to wrap up Buffee first and have been plugging away at a lot of updates and an almost complete rewrite of the generator code. Last edited by SpeedGeek; 03 February 2023 at 22:48. Reason: Merged 2 replies to same post. |
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#294 |
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Join Date: May 2021
Location: Los Angeles / USA
Posts: 135
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@utri007,
When making an inquiry best to be nice rather than expressing dissatisfaction with the time it takes. Last edited by QuikSanz; 04 February 2023 at 15:54. Reason: Fix feedback statement. |
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#295 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Poland
Posts: 888
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Ppl tend to forget it's not Phase 5 or Vortex or GVP. Nobody pays kipper or nonarkitten for the work done so far. And it's massive. I have no doubts they'd make more money (than selling buffee etc) going overtime in their regular work instead of the time spent on this project for hobbyist like me and you. So I would appreciate to stop being jacka$$ to the few ppl still doing stuff on Amiga. It won't be any better if we drove them off.
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#296 | |
mä vaan
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 1,692
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#297 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Bognor Vegas
Posts: 4
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An “open source” style Agnus has been on my wish list for years.
Anything that removes the need for me to pay £100+ for a used Agnus for my Amigas. I wish I had the knowledge to do this or participate in its build but sadly for me I didn't stay in the electronics business after I was made redundant during my apprenticeship so didnt learn enough. Just doing it for a hobby is only so good. Lucky for me being an engineer instead has given me other choices. |
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#298 |
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Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: malaga
Posts: 49
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This project is one of the best currently on the Amiga. I wish you the best.
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#299 | |
Thalion Webshrine
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Oxford
Posts: 14,642
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#300 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Thunder Bay, Canada
Posts: 4,323
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