NeoGeo Metal Slug conversion to Amiga 500 - madman task ;-)

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by zero

Thanks. Doesn't look too bad, there is a lot of tile re-use.

Like I said, on Amiga Ocs Metal Slug is quiet possible

[Hewitson]

Originally Posted by zero

Cartridges are expensive to manufacture, disks are cheap. Same with tape based machines, they could run cartridge games but most were on the cheaper tape format.

Cartridges WERE expensive to manufacture. Not anymore. There's no reason some sort of cartridge expansion couldn't be designed for the Amiga.

Doing this would mean a massive increase to the quality of games would be possible. No loading. Huge storage capabilities! You could possibly even make use of SuperFX style coprocessors on the carts! Or for arcade conversions like Rygar you could possibly include the original sound chip used on the arcade game. The possibilities are endless, really.

Originally Posted by zero

There were some cartridge based Amiga games that were part of an arcade system build around an A500. Sidewinder is the only game I know off the top of my head that used it.

Quite a few different arcade games were based off the A500. There was the Arcadia platform, as well as the American Laser Games (Mad Dog McCree, etc).

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

Like I said, on Amiga Ocs Metal Slug is quiet possible

mcgeezer, currently the most talented Amiga game developer by far, was not capable of doing Rygar in OCS. If you think a decent version of Metal Slug is possible, I'm afraid you're a fool. The Neo Geo hardware is a million times more powerful than the Amiga, yet it struggles with the game.

[roondar]

Originally Posted by Hewitson

mcgeezer, currently the most talented Amiga game developer by far, was not capable of doing Rygar in OCS. If you think a decent version of Metal Slug is possible, I'm afraid you're a fool. The Neo Geo hardware is a million times more powerful than the Amiga, yet it struggles with the game.

Although I do agree with the overall sentiment here, I want to point out something.

Sandruzzo has been talking about a port of the GBA version for a while now and I do believe that is what he's referring to here as well. I would agree this is not really a port of Metal Slug as much though, as these games are clearly very different and the GBA port is vastly cut down from the original.

And err, you do love over the top hyperbole when it comes to consoles vs Amiga hardware don't you

[zero]

Look at how ports were done back in the day, especially on 8 bit machines. Clearly they were never going to be arcade perfect, but the good ones managed to capture the spirit of the game, and the gameplay, or at least make something decent from what they had.

[roondar]

Generally I agree with that position. The problem is that Metal Slug gets a lot of it's 'uniqueness' and feeling from how it looks and sounds rather than how it plays. Though it's by no means a poor game (I rather enjoy it), it's the over the top graphics and style that truly make it what it is.

And that is where I think any port will struggle.

But the idea that you can make a run-and-gun that plays similarly and has a similar graphics style (though in no way the same over the top levels of action)? Yeah, that'll work. But is that still 'Metal Slug'? For this game in particular, I honestly don't know.

[sandruzzo]

@Hewitson

I did a level of Rygar for Ocs, allmost pixel perfect, so whats' are you talking about? Like I said Metal slug's Amiga version it's likely possible

[Retro-Nerd]

While Rygar looked and played nice it was never nearly as 50fps when bigger enemies sprites appeared, more like 5-10. And you already some visible compromises to the OCS hardware.

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

While Rygar looked and played nice it was never nearly as 50fps when bigger enemies sprites appeared, more like 5-10. And you already some compromises to the OCS hardware.

Only with 64 colors. 32 No problems!

[Retro-Nerd]

From what i've remember 32 colors didn't change a thing. Unless you had a newer demo you didn't released back then. And i used my A1200 with a 030 CPU for testing.

[mcgeezer]

Even the Game Boy Advance version of Metal Slug would be a tall order... just simply too much ram needed that Amiga stock a media from BiTD could handle.

Indeed...a mad man task... mad because it would be a waste of time.

@Sandruzzo... save me the job of doing Rolling Thunder or Double Dragon two cracking games the Amiga really deserves.

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

Even the Game Boy Advance version of Metal Slug would be a tall order... just simply too much ram needed that Amiga stock a media from BiTD could handle.

Indeed...a mad man task... mad because it would be a waste of time.

@Sandruzzo... save me the job of doing Rolling Thunder or Double Dragon two cracking games the Amiga really deserves.

Double dragon 2 and 3 weren't so bad on Amiga! Ok DB1 no words

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

Double dragon 2 and 3 weren't so bad on Amiga! Ok DB1 no words

DD3 has a good palette, Ned Langman did a great job.

DD2 has a good programming, but as usual, Richard got no good graphist to help him.... so the graphics looks a bit dirty.

DD1 is an absolute mess. shite on shite conversion.

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

DD3 has a good palette, Ned Langman did a great job.

DD2 has a good programming, but as usual, Richard got no good graphist to help him.... so the graphics looks a bit dirty.

DD1 is an absolute mess. shite on shite conversion.

Amen!

[zero]

I had Double Dragon 2 for DOS (CGA). For some reason you only got one credit so it was practically impossible - I could get to the last boss but never finish it.

There were numerous bugs too, like the big could could grab you from miles away.

So the Amiga version was sublime in comparison.

[Master484]

Just for fun I did a color reduction test on the screenshot that was posted earlier:



As you can see the quality doesn't drop so much, despite going from 80+ colors to 16.

First I used XnView's automatic color redcution to make the image 32 colors. And then I reduced colors by hand, grouping similar hues together, until I had 15 "color groups" ( 15 colors because transparency counts as one color ). And then I made 15 colors based on the color groups, and converted the 32 colors to those 15.

And then I adjusted those 15 colors until they looked good. And finally I recolored different picture elements by hand.

The end result may not be perfect, but it demonstrates that having just 16 colors is never a problem. Especially on the Amiga, where those 16 colors can be boosted with mid-game palette changes, copper effects and sprites.

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by Master484

Just for fun I did a color reduction test on the screenshot that was posted earlier:



As you can see the quality doesn't drop so much, despite going from 80+ colors to 16.

First I used XnView's automatic color redcution to make the image 32 colors. And then I reduced colors by hand, grouping similar hues together, until I had 15 "color groups" ( 15 colors because transparency counts as one color ). And then I made 15 colors based on the color groups, and converted the 32 colors to those 15.

And then I adjusted those 15 colors until they looked good. And finally I recolored different picture elements by hand.

The end result may not be perfect, but it demonstrates that having just 16 colors is never a problem. Especially on the Amiga, where those 16 colors can be boosted with mid-game palette changes, copper effects and sprites.

We can do better! I can give you 8 colors every 16pixel

[Tigerskunk]

@Master484: you lose the parallax with that palette, though.
If you go parallax-less, then I'd want to use 32 colours for more graphical fidelity...

@Sandruzzo: you want to implement a real time sliced palette manager on a 7 mhz machine?

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by Steril707

@Master484: you lose the parallax with that palette, though.
If you go parallax-less, then I'd want to use 32 colours for more graphical fidelity...

@Sandruzzo: you want to implement a real time sliced palette manager on a 7 mhz machine?

Yes, since we're 256*192, we have a lot of spare time. we have "only" 16 palettes

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

Yes, since we're 256*192, we have a lot of spare time. we have "only" 16 palettes

Prove it and i will personally send u a case of peroni.

Test case

Move 10 or so 32*32 16 colour controlable sprites around the screen each with a fully independent palette using the copper.

In my eyes you can only update the palette every 4 pixels per scan line, and thats even if you knew when to change them.

Roondar will probably know better, he has great insights into this kind of stuff.

Geezer

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

Prove it and i will personally send u a case of peroni.

Test case

Move 10 or so 32*32 16 colour controlable sprites around the screen each with a fully independent palette using the copper.

In my eyes you can only update the palette every 4 pixels per scan line, and thats even if you knew when to change them.

Roondar will probably know better, he has great insights into this kind of stuff.

Geezer

Picture this: Instead try to think how to port GBA or NeoGeo verisons on Amiga with in mind its' limitation, we have to think about how doing MS's Amiga version built around amiga Strenght

Copper will be used only for background. Another layers for enemies