Games where the Atari ST version was.....

[idrougge]

Originally Posted by lilwshu

Note the massive vertical borders on the left and right hand size of the ST image that are largely absent on the Amiga and likely contribute to the issue. If you adjust the screen so both images fill it, they will probably look the same.

Note that TV sets can't be adjusted in that way, and that the standard Atari SC1224 had even bigger borders.

[roondar]

Originally Posted by idrougge

Note that TV sets can't be adjusted in that way, and that the standard Atari SC1224 had even bigger borders.

True, I can still remember my dad's ST having a pretty big border. But then, at that time I had a C64 so I just kind of thought having big borders was normal.

[nobody]

Originally Posted by lilwshu

If you adjust the screen so both images fill it, they will probably look the same.

I remember i used to adjust my 1084S when playing some ST ports so that they would look correct (namely Batman-Wonderboy In Monsterland, they just looked wrong compared to ST screenshots in magazines), then looking for a full screen game on my collection so that i could calibrate it back to normal

[kremiso]

now, i wonder why an Atari ST game should have a 'Multi Amiga' option?

Hover Sprint

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by kremiso

now, i wonder why an Atari ST game should have a 'Multi Amiga' option?

Hover Sprint

Serial link between ST and Amiga

[kremiso]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Serial link between ST and Amiga

i must be honest, due the game quality, i was thinking at another hurried port

i didn't know at all of that link feature, to play the same game on both machines? it was used in other games too?
and another noob question, the game on ST would run little faster due the clock speed differences?

too much questions, but now i'm really curious...

EDIT nevermind, the tube answer me :
[ Show youtube player ]

interesting !

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by kremiso

interesting !

Interesting, indeed.

I did note with sadness the guy explaining that linking competing consoles like XBox and Playstation is a no-no, or so say the corporations behind them. Of course, Sony and Microsoft would like you to game on their console only, and would balk at what the ST and Amiga did in the past, but it's a shame that this has happened to modern gaming, it's all so strictly regulated now, rather than the free-for-all it was back then.

[Valken]

I think it is not "regulation" but pure GREED as each corporation tries to dominate the market by making it hard as possible to cooperate outside their own little kingdoms. There are no state or technical restrictions prohibiting it.

We are lucky that Sony allows some games to connect to PC/Mac and Switch. Seems Xbox is on their own or only recently allowed some connection to Windows 10 only systems.

It is this reason why I come back to retro and open source game engines where the developers control the "game" and bypasses system restrictions.

We were all lucky to have grown up with interoperability between systems back then.

[Keops/Equinox]

Originally Posted by kremiso

thank you
i can't explain better, i don't know if it is something related to ST-E enhancement or just the emulator display output, but i am testing various ST games atm, and until now happened just with this one (apart some crack intros)

for certainly, i can say also that ok the audio is worse, but the game runs little better than Amiga, smoother (Steem vs WinUAE)

It's not specific to STE, it's a trick coming from the demoscene. You can remove the lower border by switching to 60Hz for a short moment at the last line of the normal screen. No games made use of that because it's risky, it can be unstable and not work on some ST's.

The same kind of trick is used to open the top, left and right borders, but for those you need perfectly constant CPU usage since operations opening the borders need to happen at exactly the right moment, many times per line.

It's a nightmare to handle for a game, so the trick was basically never used. For the record, you can open the top and lower borders with a timer, which does not require constant time instructions integrated inside your fullscreen/overscan code.

The people who wrote Wings Of Death 2 (Lethal Xcess) were former demomakers (TEX), like the ones who made Enchanted Land (TCB).

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by Valken

I think it is not "regulation" but pure GREED

Well, yeah, that too.

[kremiso]

Originally Posted by Keops/Equinox

It's not specific to STE, it's a trick coming from the demoscene. You can remove the lower border by switching to 60Hz for a short moment at the last line of the normal screen. No games made use of that because it's risky, it can be unstable and not work on some ST's.

The same kind of trick is used to open the top, left and right borders, but for those you need perfectly constant CPU usage since operations opening the borders need to happen at exactly the right moment, many times per line.

It's a nightmare to handle for a game, so the trick was basically never used. For the record, you can open the top and lower borders with a timer, which does not require constant time instructions integrated inside your fullscreen/overscan code.

The people who wrote Wings Of Death 2 (Lethal Xcess) were former demomakers (TEX), like the ones who made Enchanted Land (TCB).

Thank you for the explain, risky but great effect i can say
Great game

[SquawkBox]

Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat

The Addams family looks like it was initially designed for a dual playfield background which was subsequently cut, leaving the Amiga version with no background at all.

Not only that, but it appears the pace of the ST version is more frantic. I don't think the lack of background makes the ST version prettier anyway, it's easier to focus on the action that way. Amigamagic comment on YT is spot on, check it on Al82 Retrogaming corresponding Longplay.

[Xebec]

Originally Posted by kremiso

An extremely old one

Rogue - Epyx (1986)

on ST the image is zoomed, has minimal sfx and a shitty scrolling :
[ Show youtube player ]

on Amiga, use AmigaDOS, it is zoomed out without scrolling, and has no sound at all

i'm loving it

Unfortunately, the first time I got a real hands on experience with an Amiga (1000), it was with the game Rogue and via the orange workbench. Rogue was so disappointing it basically shaped my entire opinion of the Amiga as "blah" and "why are people excited for this expensive machine over the ST?".

After that the only time I came across the Amiga was in references from ST demos, or through surprise at how long the BBS scene on the Amiga lasted (having switched to PC from ST in ~ 1990).

Now I know the true capability of the platform and I'm sorry I missed it back in the day .

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by Xebec

Unfortunately, the first time I got a real hands on experience with an Amiga (1000), it was with the game Rogue and via the orange workbench. Rogue was so disappointing it basically shaped my entire opinion of the Amiga as "blah" and "why are people excited for this expensive machine over the ST?".

You let ONE game determine your opinion of the Amiga? And a crap one at that? You should've tried others, especially highly-recommended ones.

After that the only time I came across the Amiga was in references from ST demos, or through surprise at how long the BBS scene on the Amiga lasted (having switched to PC from ST in ~ 1990).

Any Amiga demo will blow ALL ST demos out of the water, no exceptions whatsoever. You should've had a look at many of those, too.

Now I know the true capability of the platform and I'm sorry I missed it back in the day .

Too late. And I speak from experience of having owned both machines (well, the A500 at least) and to be honest, I was more towards gaming on the ST. But a couple of things I couldn't STAND about the ST (apart from the shitty audio) was that lurid green desktop and that godawful keyboard ping sound. Just hearing it again is making me sick.

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Foebane

But a couple of things I couldn't STAND about the ST (apart from the shitty audio) was that lurid green desktop and that godawful keyboard ping sound. Just hearing it again is making me sick.

The green desktop isn't necessarily green, the color can be changed.
The keyboard sound can also be disabled.

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by meynaf

The green desktop isn't necessarily green, the color can be changed.
The keyboard sound can also be disabled.

I don't recall ever seeing anyone change the GEM desktop colours, or it staying changed if so.

At least that keyboard sound can go, I just have bad memories of pressing the keys on that awful ST keyboard and having that ping drive through my skull.

[Xebec]

Originally Posted by Foebane

You let ONE game determine your opinion of the Amiga? And a crap one at that? You should've tried others, especially highly-recommended ones.



Any Amiga demo will blow ALL ST demos out of the water, no exceptions whatsoever. You should've had a look at many of those, too.



Too late. And I speak from experience of having owned both machines (well, the A500 at least) and to be honest, I was more towards gaming on the ST. But a couple of things I couldn't STAND about the ST (apart from the shitty audio) was that lurid green desktop and that godawful keyboard ping sound. Just hearing it again is making me sick.

Well I was no more than 10 years old at the time (this was before the A500 release), and being in the USA it wasn't like it was exactly easy to come across Amigas .

By the time I was ready to give the Amiga another look (i.e. a bunch of ST ports started coming out saying "play the Amiga version it's better") I had already started moving onto the PC. For reference, I also didn't even know about the STE until a few years after the ST was already commercially dead.

.. This is why I say it was unfortunate that was the one game my Uncle had on his Amiga 1000.

That said - the orange on the original Amiga workbench was pretty ugly too . Coming from the original Atari 800 (also the granddaddy of the Amiga) I didn't mind the fake clicking when typing since the 800 had that too. (Though the 800 keyboard was really good).

The ST in 640x400 @ 72 hz Mono was a lot of fun to work with - running a BBS, doing some minor development work (the stuff you do as a kid), etc. Also always good for reading documents for games you just downloaded .. as a kid.

And no it's not too late to enjoy the Amiga. I have an accelerated 500 with 1MB chipram, and an A1200 with some minor upgrades - and they're both a ton of fun to explore .

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Foebane

I don't recall ever seeing anyone change the GEM desktop colours, or it staying changed if so.

They are as easy to change as on the WB, just boot with something that does it. Actually even easier, as running a program touching hardware color registers is enough.
All the floppies i made to be booted on, did that in one way or another.
But guess what : many Amiga users also kept original colors...

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by Xebec

Well I was no more than 10 years old at the time (this was before the A500 release), and being in the USA it wasn't like it was exactly easy to come across Amigas .

By the time I was ready to give the Amiga another look (i.e. a bunch of ST ports started coming out saying "play the Amiga version it's better") I had already started moving onto the PC. For reference, I also didn't even know about the STE until a few years after the ST was already commercially dead.

.. This is why I say it was unfortunate that was the one game my Uncle had on his Amiga 1000.

Ohhhhhh, that makes a lot more sense.

That said - the orange on the original Amiga workbench was pretty ugly too . Coming from the original Atari 800 (also the granddaddy of the Amiga) I didn't mind the fake clicking when typing since the 800 had that too. (Though the 800 keyboard was really good).

I had Atari 8-Bits throughout my childhood, and got the ST and Amiga one after the other around the time I turned 18. I didn't mind the Atari 8-Bit keyboard click at all, and the keyboards on both my 600XL and 800XL were awesome.

The ST in 640x400 @ 72 hz Mono was a lot of fun to work with - running a BBS, doing some minor development work (the stuff you do as a kid), etc. Also always good for reading documents for games you just downloaded .. as a kid.

How are two monitors, or one monitor and a TV, supposed to work on one computer? Did you have to lug one in place of the other every time you changed resolution? I don't think I've ever heard anyone answer that question about the ST.

And no it's not too late to enjoy the Amiga. I have an accelerated 500 with 1MB chipram, and an A1200 with some minor upgrades - and they're both a ton of fun to explore .

Cool! You've seen the light!

Originally Posted by meynaf

They are as easy to change as on the WB, just boot with something that does it. Actually even easier, as running a program touching hardware color registers is enough.
All the floppies i made to be booted on, did that in one way or another.
But guess what : many Amiga users also kept original colors...

Yeah, I kept the original colours on Workbench 1.3, I never disliked the orange, and the other colours were lower in contrast. But that green...!

[ZEUSDAZ]

Double Dragon II, has brilliant title music on Amiga and is also overscan along with in game music,...unlike St version.

Ranarama was better in every way on the ST,...because it wasn't released on Amiga :'-(