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#261 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 936
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It's probably also a bit harsh to have a special re-use case for game creators. Sure they are "re-use" but so is say Blitz. All that Blitz library code is "re-use". Even if someone writes a game in 100% asm, they will probably reuse code for a mod player, trackloader, decruncher, startup code etc. Does all of this need to be declared ?
I'd say just leave out the re-use declarations for game makers. They already have a big handicap in performance and capability. |
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#262 |
Banana
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Darmstadt
Posts: 1,217
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Blitz is a language with a set of libraries, as is c, E, even asm if you're using system libraries (exec, anyone?). Game generators provide a full game engine, which is quite different.
Some game comps ban Backbone et al, which I think is overly harsh because no doubt it takes skill to create the graphics and music and add the gameplay magic. On the flipside, someone coding their own collision detection, animation, copper list algorithms in Blitz is doing much more work than ticking the "collisions" box in a game generator GUI, and it would be unfair to gloss over that. |
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#263 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 936
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Quote:
The current ruleset gives disincentives for: Game creators (must declare) Ports (must declare) Closed source code (against the "spirit" of the compo ?) Open source assets (Strangely these are discouraged, yet open source code is encouraged) Edit: I guess my point is that this is a "games" compo, not a coding compo. If someone can make a better game in backbone than anyone else can make in pure ASM, they should win. To make it a "fair" coding compo anything above pure ASM would have to be penalised as it's not fair to the ASM coders that are doing it the hardest way. After all, the people playing the games don't care what we use to make the games, they just care that they are good games. Last edited by alpine9000; 06 June 2018 at 02:30. |
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#264 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 262
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The RGCD 16k competition allows judges to submit games but are disallowed from judging their own entries. Judge's scores are then averaged for each entry. I wouldn't have a problem with this allowance as it would seem some of those wanting to submit games are also some of the most active in this discussion and would make good judges.
What are people's thoughts on this? Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk |
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#265 |
Knight Of The Kingdom
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: It's a bald world!
Posts: 179
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That would still allow them to vote lower for others entries,judges should not be allowed to enter.I doubt there will be a lack of members wanting to judge anyways.
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#266 | |
Banana
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Darmstadt
Posts: 1,217
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Quote:
As to the rest - I see where you're coming from about being a games not programming comp, but it is a competition and should have a common starting position - a blank document in a text editor. Everything used which gives a competitor a significant head start (graphics, music, game engine, design) over his rivals should be noted in the interest of fairness. Anyone else have an opinion? I feel alpine9000 and I might be going in circles. darkwave - it's hard to rule out unconscious bias. If we have a lack of judges we can have another think. |
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#267 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 936
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Quote:
Blitz it a example of how a new technology made Amiga programming more efficent and accessible than what came before it. This in turn has allowed heaps of great programs to be created that otherwise might not have been. Game creators are really just another step technology wise. They are programming, just at a much higher level than more traditional languages. As for head starts, I would be more worried about people with lots of games under their belts than people using game creators. Some people on this forum have not stopped coding for the Amiga since it was released 30 years ago. They would have huge libraries of code, techniques and experience they can draw on. |
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#268 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 262
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I don't agree with marking against closed source entries. It's completely up to the developer to choose whether they open source their code or not. Surely this would be a disincentive to enter, which is exactly what we don't want. No competition should dictate what rights a developer has over their work.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk |
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#269 |
Knight Of The Kingdom
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: It's a bald world!
Posts: 179
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Sharing source code should be the decision of the developer and not a rule,source code is encouraged but not a requirement.But I also understand the need to share source code as it has the potential for others to learn from and that's a definite plus for the amiga community.
Last edited by OmegaMax; 06 June 2018 at 09:02. |
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#270 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Sunderland, England
Posts: 2,702
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I think we should ditch this whole open source/closed source requirement, it has no implications on the scoring for a game.
If the developers want to release their code then fine, if they don't then fine. Geezer |
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#271 |
Banana
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Darmstadt
Posts: 1,217
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There is no proposed open source requirement, nor marking against closed source entries, nor has there been.
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#272 |
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,269
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This thread is 15 pages long now, and it's beginning to turn sour.
I think it could be a good idea to look at how Cammy used to arrange her annual Amiga game making competition a couple of years back. |
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#273 |
Global Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Derby, UK
Age: 46
Posts: 2,304
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Leffmann, totally agree
![]() OK, how about this. I have no interest in programming, or entering the competition, I am a gamer and care about the games only. If Shatterhand agrees as it's his baby I will draft some rules, and then we can get cracking before we all kill each other about things that don't actually matter. |
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#274 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 936
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Don’t read too much into the discussions E-Penguin and I were having, they were really around quite minor points in the grand scheme of things. I definitely didn’t mean it to come across as anything but each of us pitching ideas (no sourness intended that’s for sure).
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#275 | |
Banana
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Darmstadt
Posts: 1,217
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Feel free to offer updates to the ones I've gleaned from this thread. Better than starting again. alpine9000 and I are perhaps quibbling on minor points but the bulk of it seems to be consensus. No sourness intended from this side either.
Quote:
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#276 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 195
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@E-Penguin: I like your draft, it seems to cover almost everything!
![]() It wouldn't hurt if the rules declare that the rights of the game remain by the developer, except for game-compo related things: - The judges must have access to the games after the deadline! (obviously) - Should the games be available for download for everyone or not? That should be defined. (I would say YES) EDIT: Forget it, Rule 4 already covers this! Last edited by Lazycow; 06 June 2018 at 14:04. |
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#277 | |
Banana
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Darmstadt
Posts: 1,217
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Thanks, I hope it captures the overall consensus.
I think it's essential that games be available for everyone to play, in the same state that the judges have access to. Otherwise the competition is open to abuse by sending judges "special editions" to play, which is effectively bribery. Nothing to stop someone submitting a playable demo (saves disabled, fewer levels, etc) if they want to release a fuller game later on. Also, it's hardly a gaming competition if we can't all play along, right? You are also right about clarifying ownership rights. How about adding: Quote:
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#278 |
Phone Homer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 5150
Posts: 5,887
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And the 2018 winner is Alco-Copter.
Last edited by Retro1234; 06 June 2018 at 14:54. |
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#279 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Scunthorpe/United Kingdom
Posts: 2,185
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Do I smell another resident evil project but in competition form here?
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#280 |
Phone Homer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 5150
Posts: 5,887
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