NeoGeo Metal Slug conversion to Amiga 500 - madman task ;-)

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

Now we could try to talk about how we could have a Great Amiga 500 version of Metal slug.

I would try different layout, but with 256*192 screen size. Even though it seems small, with that we have a lot free dma cycles to use to have a lot of moving object on screen.

We could try to have dualplayfield one for actuall gfx, and other for bobs. And if we interlace 2 background we can easly archive 16 colors, but we have to have stable 50hz

If you struggled to do Rygar at 50hz on OCS then how do you expect to do Metal Slug?

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

If you struggled to do Rygar at 50hz on OCS then how do you expect to do Metal Slug?

Because Instead complain, I like to try, using dualplayfield Bob's. Stop pushing me about rygar ok?

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

Because Instead complain, I like to try, using dualplayfield Bob's. Stop pushing me about rygar ok?

You’re getting defensive.

If you want to go and create metal slug on the amiga then dont let me stop you, but beeare of dragging some other poor sod in to rip all the graphics and map all the tilesets for you on the way.

The game cant be done justice on the Amiga by today’s standards.

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

You’re getting defensive.

If you want to go and create metal slug on the amiga then dont let me stop you, but beeare of dragging some other poor sod in to rip all the graphics and map all the tilesets for you on the way.

The game cant be done justice on the Amiga by today’s standards.

Don't get me Wrong I don't drag someone to rip gfx, Just talk about tecnical
specifications. Like I said many time, rygar wasn't meant to e finished project, and I prefer original game than conversion. Since the best Amiga games arent' converted...

Peace

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

Don't get me Wrong I don't drag someone to rip gfx, Just talk about tecnical
specifications. Like I said many time, rygar wasn't meant to e finished project, and I prefer original game than conversion. Since the best Amiga games arent' converted...

Peace

Fine by me I'll happily talk technical about it.

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

Fine by me I'll happily talk technical about it.

Btw with rygar I struggled only with 64 colors. 32 no problems...

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

Btw with rygar I struggled only with 64 colors. 32 no problems...

You had a fine version of the first level running, which is already a feat, don't get me wrong. But later on you'd have the waterfalls, that mountain in front of the sun three layer parallaxing landscape, etc...

I am by no means an authority on OCS coding, but I think anybody would have had a very hard time getting this stuff running on an vanilla A500.


And on your comment that Metal Slug on the GBA would be easy on AGA, and possible on OCS:



tool.anides.de counts 110 colours in this image. You have a background parallaxing with a lot colours in it (not in every level, but a few use very colourful backgrounds) which could be done as a poor mans version with a sprite background in one or two of the levels. In others, the background is freeform, so not really doable on an OCS system.

Using dual playfield would by no means do the game justice, imo.

Even on AGA, being able to use only 15 colours in the foreground would be a shit show.
Don't even start thinking about using only 7 on OCS.

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by Steril707

You had a fine version of the first level running, which is already a feat, don't get me wrong. But later on you'd have the waterfalls, that mountain in front of the sun three layer parallaxing landscape, etc...

I am by no means an authority on OCS coding, but I think anybody would have had a very hard time getting this stuff running on an vanilla A500.


And on your comment that Metal Slug on the GBA would be easy on AGA, and possible on OCS:



tool.anides.de counts 110 colours in this image. You have a background parallaxing with a lot colours in it (not in every level, but a few use very colourful backgrounds) which could be done as a poor mans version with a sprite background in one or two of the levels. In others, the background is freeform, so not really doable on an OCS system.

Using dual playfield would by no means do the game justice, imo.

Even on AGA, being able to use only 15 colours in the foreground would be a shit show.
Don't even start thinking about using only 7 on OCS.

I know that Rygar OCS is running and few expected(me tto) to have such a great archivment.

When I said that Aga version of MS would be easy, obviously. I was jopking, since I'm aware that is very difficult task to do.

But Since NeoGeo have it's own version like GBA, and other consolle, MAYBE, a Version Design Around Amiga HW could fly.

Btw 15 colors per lines...

[sandruzzo]

Additing hundreds of color with A500 is not a big deal on 256*192 pixel resolution. If you change palette every 16 pixel you'll get 96 of them! And since every screen will bite only 18k you can get 10 unique gfx for about 180k! With 8 way scrolling a little bit less.

The real problem is the Time To programm all that stuff!

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

Additing hundreds of color with A500 is not a big deal on 256*192 pixel resolution. If you change palette every 16 pixel you'll get 96 of them!

I'd worry more about the logic on which to switch those colours, to be honest...

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by Steril707

I'd worry more about the logic on which to switch those colours, to be honest...

No problem if you have the right amount of objects, Like Gba! Not a big dial

The "real" problem , is game design....

[zero]

Originally Posted by Steril707

tool.anides.de counts 110 colours in this image. You have a background parallaxing with a lot colours in it (not in every level, but a few use very colourful backgrounds) which could be done as a poor mans version with a sprite background in one or two of the levels. In others, the background is freeform, so not really doable on an OCS system.

Looking at that screenshot you have a lot of brown and green colours. The number of shades could be reduced greatly by a skilled artist. That's always the way with arcade conversions.

For the rest it looks on a par with a game like Ruff 'n' Tumble, in terms of the number and size of objects on screen etc.

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by zero

Looking at that screenshot you have a lot of brown and green colours. The number of shades could be reduced greatly by a skilled artist. That's always the way with arcade conversions.

For the rest it looks on a par with a game like Ruff 'n' Tumble, in terms of the number and size of objects on screen etc.

Somenthing That A500 can handle

[roondar]

And look on the bright side: Metal Slug runs so poorly even on native hardware that a cut-down game with a 25FPS constant rate might be an improvement

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by roondar

And look on the bright side: Metal Slug runs so poorly even on native hardware that a cut-down game with a 25FPS constant rate might be an improvement

If you design a version around Amiga to get 50 hz it's higly possible!

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by zero

Looking at that screenshot you have a lot of brown and green colours. The number of shades could be reduced greatly by a skilled artist. That's always the way with arcade conversions.

Don't forget, that palette needs to work with not only that screen but the whole level.
I know you could do a SWIV and change palette tones over the course of a level, but together with copper use over the screen this adds a whole other layer of complexity.

Been there done that in Inviyya, and in the end I decided against it since it's barely manageable and takes too much time designing stuff.

But don't let us critics prevent you from creating something.

I'd love to see what you guys come up with.

[zero]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

Somenthing That A500 can handle

Ruff 'n' Tumble runs fine on OCS... Okay you need 1 meg.

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by Steril707

Don't forget, that palette needs to work with not only that screen but the whole level.
I know you could do a SWIV and change palette tones over the course of a level, but together with copper use over the screen this adds a whole other layer of complexity.

Been there done that in Inviyya, and in the end I decided against it since it's barely manageable and takes too much time designing stuff.

But don't let us critics prevent you from creating something.

I'd love to see what you guys come up with.

That's way I said that the real challenge is to design it properly. And btw you can change palette dinamically like Lionheart

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

And btw you can change palette dinamically like Lionheart

Well off course you can do a hundred crazy things with the Amiga chipsets.

But in the end I prefer to have created a game that is finished and playable, a goal which is by its nature more kind of a marathon run than a sprint.

Which means, stuff must be manageable.
In your Rygar thread you seemed to be most of the time waiting for assets created by other people, which were a lot of times in a wrong format. That was at least my impression.

Something like Metal Slug seems to be a lot more complex than Rygar to me, and if you want other people to create assets with managing different palettes (vertically coded and horizontally through the levels) I don't really understand how you want to manage that if it didn't work out for you for Rygar..

Like I said, I had the same kind of ideas for Inviyya, but thought it's not worth the hassle. And I am creating the assets myself, and am not dependent on somebody else on this.

Sorry, I just don't see that happening.

I would be more than happy being proven wrong, though.

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by Steril707

Well off course you can do a hundred crazy things with the Amiga chipsets.

But in the end I prefer to have created a game that is finished and playable, a goal which is by its nature more kind of a marathon run than a sprint.

Which means, stuff must be manageable.
In your Rygar thread you seemed to be most of the time waiting for assets created by other people, which were a lot of times in a wrong format. That was at least my impression.

Something like Metal Slug seems to be a lot more complex than Rygar to me, and if you want other people to create assets with managing different palettes (vertically coded and horizontally through the levels) I don't really understand how you want to manage that if it didn't work out for you for Rygar..

Like I said, I had the same kind of ideas for Inviyya, but thought it's not worth the hassle. And I am creating the assets myself, and am not dependent on somebody else on this.

Sorry, I just don't see that happening.

I would be more than happy being proven wrong, though.

Gameplay must be first concern. I never said that i want do something about MS, we're just to talk about possible tecnical solutions. A game like that deserve a team working like pro.