Coder shows possible way in which some elements of Street Fighter 2 might be possible - Page 13

saimon69 · 03 February 2021, 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jobbo

I want that magic!

Afraid someone need to build one, i wonder if Amos or Blitz Basic might be enough

DanScott · 03 February 2021, 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by saimon69

Might be the same tool used for Universe i guess

No, it's a tool written for our demo De Profundis for one of the screens there

These screens look really good in 16 colours per line too.. would be good for AGA, or perhaps 8 fixed colours and 7 changing per line would be good.

DanScott · 03 February 2021, 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by saimon69

Afraid someone need to build one, i wonder if Amos or Blitz Basic might be enough

How about using Unity, or HTML 5 or even dare I say it JavaScript ?

Tools don't need to (and in fact don't really want to) be running on Amiga these days

Jobbo · 03 February 2021, 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanScott

No, it's a tool written for our demo De Profundis for one of the screens there

These screens look really good in 16 colours per line too.. would be good for AGA, or perhaps 8 fixed colours and 7 changing per line would be good.

Looks like it's used on the morphing skulls part. Is it used anywhere else? It does seems like it'd be worth using all over the place for logos and backgrounds.

DanScott · 03 February 2021, 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jobbo

Looks like it's used on the morphing skulls part. Is it used anywhere else? It does seems like it'd be worth using all over the place for logos and backgrounds.

Yes, it was used specifically there

Jobbo · 03 February 2021, 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanScott

Yes, it was used specifically there

Did Leonard make it? It has the look of Spectrum512 on the ST.

DanScott · 03 February 2021, 22:44

No, Soundy made the converter... Leonard used the output for that part though with his "infinite" bobs (style) routine

Retro1234 · 03 February 2021, 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by alain.treesong

Ah since the beginning, all the guy who spoke about the dual playfied, of course, knows that the copper will do the thing. But images are better than words sometimes ...

all very well people saying this and that but who has the skill and tools to do what was just uploaded.

DanScott · 03 February 2021, 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro1234

all very well people saying this and that but who has the skill and tools to do what was just uploaded.

I'd say there were probably quite a few, myself included.

alain.treesong · 03 February 2021, 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro1234

all very well people saying this and that but who has the skill and tools to do what was just uploaded.

The tool is one thing.
But regardless of this, using the copper to change some colors is quite easy.
I was doing exactly that. But of course I am not a graphist and the tool gives a better rendering than I can get tonight.
So here is what I got, not as nice as the screens just posted of course.

Click image for larger version

Name: street2Copper.PNG
Views: 160
Size: 43.5 KB
ID: 70753

Retro1234 · 03 February 2021, 23:04

sorry I don't get it youve used the copper to create a different colour per line? not a different pallet per line.

roondar · 03 February 2021, 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanScott

This is an 8 colour image, with each line having a separate palette

Yes, there's a couple of errors, but perhaps we can tweak our image converter

That image looks amazing. Copper colour reloading is such a nice thing. I actually got into an argument with some guy on YouTube a while back who argued that the Copper could only do harsh gradients and that Copper colour reloading "didn't add to the look of Amiga games". Perhaps I should forward him this image

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanScott

How about using Unity, or HTML 5 or even dare I say it JavaScript ?

Tools don't need to (and in fact don't really want to) be running on Amiga these days

Been porting some of my tools to python myself. What used to take me days to write on the Amiga now takes a few hours at the most. Image conversion was one of my first attempts. It's just so convenient to use modern tools.

So yeah, make your tools PC side and your life will be better

DanScott · 03 February 2021, 23:42

Actually I grabbed those images off the screen with Snipping Tool, so it has applied some filtering for some reason.

Will try to get some proper image output

alain.treesong · 03 February 2021, 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro1234

sorry I don't get it youve used the copper to create a different colour per line? not a different pallet per line.

Not sure to understand your sentence. Anyway there is some copper timing, but we can update of course different colours index values during the same raster line.

In the image I posted, I only change at most only one colour in a line at the same time. But this is only because it is a test and I use the simple and easy instructions AMOS Rainbow and Rain (poetic isn't it) which are very restrictive. Of course we can use the instr copper off and code the copperlist ourself (or use another langage).

All what I suggested is that it is classic to multiple the colors of a background in a dual playfield amiga mode. Dozens of game do that. And this kind of game is the perfect candidate to do that.

Retro1234 · 03 February 2021, 23:47

about one game has a different pallet per line.

it is possible in Amos though KevG did it https://www.ultimateamiga.com/index.php?topic=9300.0

alain.treesong · 03 February 2021, 23:52

It is not necessary to have all the palette changed during the same line to get beautiful image.
But you are right that not a lot of game did that (because it is not so necessary actually).

I suppose that KevG does it by using the instr "copper off" and code all the copper list himself. The problem when you do that is that you lose all the screens and sprites operations support brought by Amos. So it is perhaps better to use another langage :-)

It is also possible to write your own set of instructions (in 68k) and add this as an extension in amos

DanScott · 04 February 2021, 01:35

With one playfield for bobs, and the other for the background, we could even use the hardware sprites for other elements of the background perhaps ? So we could strip the orange lanterns from Hondas background, improving the colour conversion of rest of it, and then have the lanterns addes as hardware sprites, moving in a slight parallax with the background.

Just need to look at each background and decide how and what can be done as a sprite overlay (ie.. the tree in Blanka background, again that could be hardware sprites if required)... I think there's A LOT that can be done to make a good SF2 on OCS/ECS

One of the biggest problems would be the image flipping & possibly decompression of animations, but that's something that could be tackled (working with only 7 colour bobs certainly helps). Perhaps the 50/50 flip method would be suitable, to keep CPU load stable

DanScott · 04 February 2021, 01:36

I've got a week off work next week, so I might put a little bit of time into this, and see what can be done

DanScott · 04 February 2021, 01:46

What if I told you that this one was only 4 colours per line ?

Pyromania · 04 February 2021, 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanScott

I've got a week off work next week, so I might put a little bit of time into this, and see what can be done

Awesome, please do!

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03 February 2021, 22:44	#247
DanScott Lemon. / Core Design Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Tier 5 Posts: 1,213	No, Soundy made the converter... Leonard used the output for that part though with his "infinite" bobs (style) routine

03 February 2021, 23:04	#251
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,814	sorry I don't get it youve used the copper to create a different colour per line? not a different pallet per line.

03 February 2021, 23:42	#253
DanScott Lemon. / Core Design Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Tier 5 Posts: 1,213	Actually I grabbed those images off the screen with Snipping Tool, so it has applied some filtering for some reason. Will try to get some proper image output

03 February 2021, 23:47	#255
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,814	about one game has a different pallet per line. it is possible in Amos though KevG did it https://www.ultimateamiga.com/index.php?topic=9300.0

03 February 2021, 23:52	#256
alain.treesong Aghnar Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: France Posts: 155	It is not necessary to have all the palette changed during the same line to get beautiful image. But you are right that not a lot of game did that (because it is not so necessary actually). I suppose that KevG does it by using the instr "copper off" and code all the copper list himself. The problem when you do that is that you lose all the screens and sprites operations support brought by Amos. So it is perhaps better to use another langage :-) It is also possible to write your own set of instructions (in 68k) and add this as an extension in amos

04 February 2021, 01:35	#257
DanScott Lemon. / Core Design Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Tier 5 Posts: 1,213	With one playfield for bobs, and the other for the background, we could even use the hardware sprites for other elements of the background perhaps ? So we could strip the orange lanterns from Hondas background, improving the colour conversion of rest of it, and then have the lanterns addes as hardware sprites, moving in a slight parallax with the background. Just need to look at each background and decide how and what can be done as a sprite overlay (ie.. the tree in Blanka background, again that could be hardware sprites if required)... I think there's A LOT that can be done to make a good SF2 on OCS/ECS One of the biggest problems would be the image flipping & possibly decompression of animations, but that's something that could be tackled (working with only 7 colour bobs certainly helps). Perhaps the 50/50 flip method would be suitable, to keep CPU load stable

04 February 2021, 01:36	#258
DanScott Lemon. / Core Design Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Tier 5 Posts: 1,213	I've got a week off work next week, so I might put a little bit of time into this, and see what can be done

04 February 2021, 01:46	#259
DanScott Lemon. / Core Design Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Tier 5 Posts: 1,213	What if I told you that this one was only 4 colours per line ?

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