09 August 2022, 14:24 | #241 | ||||||||||||
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There can't be a standard if you got multiple incarnations of different solutions. It's really not hard to understand. In the beginning you said that targeting 060/RTG would cover all Amiga systems with GFX and contrary to it that AMMX would split up the community bringing new incompatibilities. Now you claim that resource hungry 68k software could at least run on OS4, MorphOS and PiStorm. Three niches that nobody cares about. But you keep pushing the argument that an AMMX featured card which got so many more active users than those three platforms is splitting up the community. Please tell me, shall I cry or laugh at you? Quote:
And this is just on the hardware level. There's even more incompatibility software wise. Quote:
And you're again comparing apples with oranges. The 68080 is not built in ASIC contrary to an M4F. An 68080 in ASIC would have any emulated 680x0 CPU for breakfast. And what you don't get about your paradox claims - bulding software targeted for highend emulation solutions like PiStorm or WinUAE wouldn't also help keeping the community together as those programs wouldn't run on anything that is classic with real CPUs. Quote:
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There are even solutions to put your raspberry pi into an Amiga 1200 case using the Amigas keyboard etc. So lets dump all classic machines as this is the fastest and cheapest solution right? I am fine with it, but its not an argument against 68080 or any other fast solution. Quote:
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And there is also another big difference. FPGA/ASIC can operate in parallel. Emulation cannot. So emulation will never be as accurate as real chips. Personally I don't think thats too important because the level of compatibility is pretty high both on 68080 and software emulation (like WinUAE). Quote:
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If you keep talking even more BS, its probably gonna be the best day of your life. Congratulations |
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09 August 2022, 14:46 | #242 | |
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Claiming that it won't help keeping the community together is BS. This whole argument evolves around this statement. Its a fabricated myth for whatever personal reasons he got. Probably butt-hurt as somebody has said earlier. Its those people who dislike certain progress and developments who are constantly dividing the community potraying certain people/projects as evil. Its ok to use AMMX, its ok to use RTG, its ok to stick with OCS, its ok to use PPC and PiStorm. The community is still together and diverse like no other retro platform. This is a good thing, not bad. |
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09 August 2022, 15:57 | #243 | ||||||
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09 August 2022, 16:49 | #244 | |||||||||||
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Its pointless to talk to you, as you keep skipping crucial arguments i made. You keep cherrypicking a few sentences which are totally out of context regarding your original statement, which was about keeping the community together.
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Gunnar has always said, that his goal is to take the original custom chipset and improve it. It's ok if you'd like to prefer DSP or standard PC graphics card over new custom chip design. Everybody accepts your point of view but you seem to have a hard time doing the same. And a Cyclone V was way more expensive back then. Wouldnt make no sense to use it as bringing affordable and new hardware to the userbase was a priority. Quote:
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And the Amigas original design was always about that kind of unorthodox implemention. Its what made the Amiga a great computer. It lost its edge when Commodore slept on the development and never got it back when they started to implement standard PC hardware. Quote:
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09 August 2022, 16:53 | #245 |
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Actually it is quite the contrary: the van Helsings regularly cite higher virtues such as maintaining a unified platform (evil Vamps fragment the platform), compatibility (evil Vamps have exclusive software not accessible to others), customer rights (poor Vamp customers are being exploited), good behaviour (evil Gunnar hurts people's feelings) and probably a few more.
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09 August 2022, 16:53 | #246 |
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I think 10,000 Vampire V4 solutions being sold is pretty impressive in the now small Amiga market. Also, it’s good that there are competing solutions. Competition breeds innovation. I just hope everyone can get along. We are all Amiga fans after all, or at least I like to hope so.
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09 August 2022, 17:16 | #247 | ||
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Also about hypothetical (that's how you spell it) chipset... well Hombre is your friend. That's what it would look like. Very much unlike SAGA. Quote:
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09 August 2022, 17:40 | #248 | |
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I was referring to the way people here use moral higher ground in the process of the dispute itself, saying that any argument against The V is inherently intolerant, divisive, and/or hateful. This is a really tiresome internet crutch, because using it you can dismiss any negative opinion by just calling your opponent a "hater". Also, my comment was spurred by the charge of being "religious/ideological". But this can be applied to one side as much to the other, coz the thing about the cake is that you can't have and eat it. The bottom line is these arguments are not going away, like it or not. And that's just fine, because we don't live in a utopia where everyone has the same opinion, especially when it comes to a highly divisive product or idea. So, I don't mind people critiquing the Apollos nor the others defending them. Just be honest about it and stick to real arguments instead of trying to paint the other side as intolerant haters. Trying to avoid ad hominems, NO Us, and exhausting cicular exchanges would help too (for both sides). Not having the last word is not a big deal, it really is okay to step away from the keyboard sometimes |
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09 August 2022, 18:06 | #249 | ||
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Amiga's chipset design is unorthodox compared to RTG solution/PC hardware integration, which we talked about here in the first place. Of course, you are just fading out all that to win an argument, even if its completely out of context. But you made it clear that you're just trolling by this point and obvious for everyone to see that you really have nothing else to say. |
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09 August 2022, 18:34 | #250 | |
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The person in question is obviously using those kind of illogical arguments to express his hate for V. You dont have to like it and you can indeed hate it as much as you want but he shouldnt act like the BS he's saying makes any sense. A "moral higher ground" was established in this thread when this person acted like his arguments were expressed for the sake of the community (to save it from something bad like the V). He was the one demonizing a product that is used by thousands of Amiga users. The community won't be split because of what Gunnar is developing. His hate regarding 68080/AMMX is purely personal and not rooted in something bad that could happen to the platform. His arguments are getting less and less, because he knows there's nothing else to say anymore. He's subsequently changing the focus and shifting the topics, to keep his self-absorbed blabla going. If you ask me, this is stubborn and ignorant. I dont claim a moral highground, he's just digging himself deeper into the shithole with lies and false claims he's making and dismantling his true face. |
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09 August 2022, 19:21 | #251 | ||||||
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How do you make my statement into a general logic principle that anything can be "dragged under the umbrella of morality"? I can't follow your reasoning. Quote:
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Last edited by grond; 09 August 2022 at 23:36. |
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10 August 2022, 10:36 | #252 |
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Apollo-core's AMMX SIMD fork is not relevant for Amiga 68K legacy and improving 68K performance. It's another Phase 5 fork distraction.
Last edited by hammer; 16 August 2022 at 16:37. |
10 August 2022, 10:53 | #253 |
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Guys, chill!
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10 August 2022, 11:16 | #254 | |
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The mainstream market already has hit-the-metal game console and it's called PS4/PS5. Hit-the-metal backward compatibly has imposed strict topology design between PS4 (with 18 CU), PS4 Pro (with 36 CU, strict 2X of 18 CU) and PS5 (with 36 CU, strict 2X of 18 CU) while the Xbox team has the freedom to evolve it's GPUs from 12 CU to 44 CU to 20 CU and 52 CU. ---- PiStorm/Pi3a/emu68 still retains C= Amiga hardware while the CPUs originated from Motorola/Freescale (or any other 68K licensee e.g. Hitachi, Thomson). Below the OS level CPU translation is not new e.g. Transmeta's Code Morphing Software (CMS) Crusoe/Efficeon (VLIW-based architecture with X86-64) or NVIDIA's Project Denver (VLIW-based architecture with ARMv8). AMD K5 had hardware decoders with AM29K like RISC CPU. PiStorm/Pi3a/emu68 doesn't have 68K hardware decoders, hence the concept follows Transmeta's Code Morphing Software (CMS) concepts. Modern X86 CPUs have firmware-based micro-coding decoders to patch hardware erratas instead of executing expensive product recalls. Last edited by hammer; 16 August 2022 at 16:46. |
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15 August 2022, 11:39 | #255 |
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What’s XAGA?
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15 August 2022, 12:16 | #256 |
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16 August 2022, 18:23 | #257 | |||
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On PiStorm/Pi 3a, Broadcom Video Core IV is the RTG card and it's about 10 years old. This hardware runs with classic Amiga 1000/500/600 hardware. On Linux (ARM Pi), an open-source Vulkan driver has been released for Broadcom Video Core IV RPi-VK-Driver on Github. Martin Thomas, an NVIDIA engineer has programmed Broadcom Video Core IV RPi-VK-Driver in his spare time. Pi-VK-Driver implements a subset of the Vulkan, and since it is not fully conformant to the standard it cannot technically be called a Vulkan driver as it lacks features such as GLSL shaders. However, it does implement MSAA support, low-level assembly shaders, and performance counters in a way that’s good enough to play vkQuake 3 (Vulkan) Quake 3 on a Raspberry Pi 3A+/B+ at over 100 fps using 720p resolution. Amiga68K's side needs the middleware software infrastructure to access Broadcom Video Core IV 3D in addition to RTG access. Broadcom Video Core IV has support for OpenGL-ES 1.1/2.0, but the Amiga 68K side would need middleware software infrastructure to access 3D accelerator features. PiStorm/Pi 3a has a low cost of entry like the Nintendo SNES Super FX2 game cartridge. 64-bit integer SIMD AMMX translation can be added for PiStorm/Pi 3a/Emu68 since ARM Cortex A53 has 128-bit NEON SIMD (integer and floating point SIMD). Quote:
"The only way to run highend apps on RTG/060 is on WinUAE" is not true. Quote:
ARM SoCs have a better chance due to their relatively low-cost entry, modern competitive performance, and big-endian support. The ARM1 CPU was Acorn's answer for Commodore's crap R&D road map for CSG/MOS 65xx CPU family. Later in BBC Micro's life, ARM1 was used as a co-processor. Raspberry Pi is the 21st-century replacement for ZX Spectrum (Z80A) and BBC Micro (CSG/MOS 6502/6512). Last edited by hammer; 16 August 2022 at 18:41. |
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16 August 2022, 18:58 | #258 | |
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PA-RISC was HP's answer for Motorola ending 68K from the high-performance CPU segment since HP Unix offerings are 68K based. Amiga CD64 would be similar to SGI-designed N64, but with a CD drive and a different RISC CPU. The key SGI team members who design N64 form ArtX company that was later brought by ATI. ArtX designed Game Cube and significant contribution with Radeon 9700 (SIMD-based GPU). Commodore didn't survive the PC Doom 386/486/Pentium transition. AAA's 2D multi-parallax layers are inferior to textured map 3D's perspective parallax. |
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16 August 2022, 19:13 | #259 |
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@hammmer - back in early 90s there were many upstart architectures with SuperH being one of them (and so was more expensive PA-RISC). SH was used in several consoles so it only proves it's worth. Nevertheless direction was towards industry standards and HAL not towards bare metal chipset.
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16 August 2022, 19:18 | #260 |
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