Searching for Sherlock Holmes - Consulting Detective CDTV - Page 13

DDNI · 05 April 2010, 15:10

nice one! This has been a marathon effort. Thanks for your perseverance!

I have long waited to be disappointed by this game

Retro1234 · 05 April 2010, 15:12

Great News - finaly the case is solved

Toni Wilen · 05 April 2010, 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by musashi5150

Some good news on this one folks

A clever chap by the name of Truman has managed to correctly image this game on a PC using a Plextor drive! He has kindly provided me with a CloneCD image that can be burnt from any burner and works on original CDTV hardware AND a set of good video files for use with WinUAE

Great.

Do you know if drive had original firmware (which for some reason ignores checksum errors) or some hacked firmware?

Does the image include fixed or original (wrong) checksums?

I guess it is time to create cue/bin version, I am not going to implement built-in CloneCD support (at least too soon) because it is annoying format.

musashi5150 · 05 April 2010, 18:11

Upload still in progress.

I'll ask Truman your questions Toni and see what he says (as I don't know enough about these technologies to have an opinion). In the meantime maybe some of this information might be useful to you...

"CD image was ripped from an original Amiga CDTV Sherlock Holmes CD on a PC using the Plextor 755A + special 0xD8 command and my own PC ripping software."

"Tracks 2, 3 and 4 are standard mode2 formless sectors, not mode2 form2 as posted on the forum. Mode2 formless don't have ECC nor CRC bytes in the sector. The reason why PC drives refuse to read them is because the firmware programmers were too lazy to support mode2 formless sectors, and instead most drives treated them as mode2 form1 sectors, and tried to perform error correction using ECC bytes (which are infact video bytes) to correct, which is impossible."

Toni Wilen · 05 April 2010, 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by musashi5150

I'll ask Truman your questions Toni and see what he says (as I don't know enough about these technologies to have an opinion). In the meantime maybe some of this information might be useful to you...

You already answered my questions

Quote:

"CD image was ripped from an original Amiga CDTV Sherlock Holmes CD on a PC using the Plextor 755A + special 0xD8 command and [COLOR=#120200]my own PC ripping software."

Looks like normal firmware but undocumented special read command.

Quote:

"Tracks 2, 3 and 4 are standard mode2 formless sectors, not mode2 form2 as posted on the forum. Mode2 formless don't have ECC nor CRC bytes in the sector. The reason why PC drives refuse to read them is because the firmware programmers were too lazy to support mode2 formless sectors, and instead most drives treated them as mode2 form1 sectors, and tried to perform error correction using ECC bytes (which are infact video bytes) to correct, which is impossible

Ah, I didn't know about Mode 2 Form 0 (or formless) which is same as Mode 2 Form 2 but CRC bytes can be used for data. (which apparently most normal CD drives mistakenly detect as Mode 2 Form 2)

musashi5150 · 05 April 2010, 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

You already answered my questions

I thought it might but wasn't completely sure

I have now completed the upload of the image and video files to the EAB FTP server. They can be found in the /CDTV/Sherlock folder. I have also uploaded the scans that thor kindly made for us from the previous release so it can be all kept together

viddi · 05 April 2010, 21:46

AWESOME!!!!

Thanks a lot, musashi5150 and Truman.

Case closed...hopefully.

viddi · 05 April 2010, 21:51

BTW, do I need the video files.rar archive?

The "full image" one should do the trick, right?

musashi5150 · 05 April 2010, 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by viddi

BTW, do I need the video files.rar archive?

The "full image" one should do the trick, right?

The video files are only for use with WinUAE by placing them in the same directory as the WinUAE executable. The full image is for burning to use on a real CDTV. I haven't tried mounting the image with WinUAE so I can't comment on how that works yet - I expect Toni might be interested in trying this too

mr.vince · 05 April 2010, 22:31

Excellent news. Although I just bought a not too expensive original copy on eBay to have it sent to a replicator to do a low level readout (they happen to have some pretty expensive verification equipment there).

But again: Very well done.

musashi5150 · 05 April 2010, 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.vince

Although I just bought a not too expensive original copy on eBay

Pah, so it was you who outbid me on Saturday eh?

Toni Wilen · 05 April 2010, 23:04

Sherlock image in CD emulation (tested with Daemon Tools) will work in next WinUAE beta. (without extra video files)

There is tiny bug, raw read command (that didn't work with original CD due to stupid CD drives) uses wrong sector offset. Raw read start sector is sector 0, standard read starts from 150.

viddi · 05 April 2010, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by musashi5150

The video files are only for use with WinUAE by placing them in the same directory as the WinUAE executable. The full image is for burning to use on a real CDTV.

Thanks!

Yep, I also read the info file.

mr.vince · 06 April 2010, 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by musashi5150

Pah, so it was you who outbid me on Saturday eh?

Sorry, yes. And I even don't like the game. Just got it for this very special purpose. Anyway, I think I'll just progress and try what comes off the disk when I send it to the replicator.

Toni Wilen · 06 April 2010, 11:32

It seems to be impossible to create working cue with mode2form0 tracks.

I assumed CDI/2336 and CDI/2352 (that are documented in some cue "specifications") are form 0. DT Pro does not support them (tracks disappear), imgburn complains. Nero does not complain but burned CD does not work. (videos fail as usual)

Then I tried MODE2/2336 and MODE2/2352: DT accepts them but raw read IOCTL returns errors.

CCD image works fine in DT + WinUAE (after above bug fix) and when burned with CloneCD in real CDTV (unfortunately no program can read video tracks anymore, just like when attempting to dump original CD.. stupid drives.)

This kind of cue works with WinUAE internal cue support (after separating tracks from ccd image, i used ancient cdmage) but just creating one for emulation seems stupid:

Code:

FILE "1.bin" BINARY
  TRACK 01 MODE1/2048
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "2.bin" BINARY
  TRACK 02 MODE2/2336
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "3.bin" BINARY
  TRACK 03 MODE2/2336
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "4.bin" BINARY
  TRACK 04 MODE2/2336
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "5.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 05 AUDIO
    PREGAP 00:02:00
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "6.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 06 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00

andreas · 06 April 2010, 11:41

WHOHOO !

Great work, all of you!

It was like those cog wheels in a clockwork: without a 100% original image, Toni would never have bothered to look for a possible bug in the CDTV emulation (with a reason, eh, or who'd like groping in the dark)

TCD · 06 April 2010, 11:46

Great news everyone

(especially my man Mr. Musashen

)

mr.vince · 06 April 2010, 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

It seems to be impossible to create working cue with mode2form0 tracks.

I assumed CDI/2336 and CDI/2352 (that are documented in some cue "specifications") are form 0. DT Pro does not support them (tracks disappear), imgburn complains. Nero does not complain but burned CD does not work. (videos fail as usual)

Then I tried MODE2/2336 and MODE2/2352: DT accepts them but raw read IOCTL returns errors.

CCD image works fine in DT + WinUAE (after above bug fix) and when burned with CloneCD in real CDTV (unfortunately no program can read video tracks anymore, just like when attempting to dump original CD.. stupid drives.)

This kind of cue works with WinUAE internal cue support (after separating tracks from ccd image, i used ancient cdmage) but just creating one for emulation seems stupid:

Code:

FILE "1.bin" BINARY
  TRACK 01 MODE1/2048
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "2.bin" BINARY
  TRACK 02 MODE2/2336
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "3.bin" BINARY
  TRACK 03 MODE2/2336
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "4.bin" BINARY
  TRACK 04 MODE2/2336
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "5.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 05 AUDIO
    PREGAP 00:02:00
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "6.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 06 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00

hi!

currently at work (with macs all along my desk, so i can't try)... maybe cdrwin (http://www.goldenhawk.com/) does do the trick? i remember it was able to burn very uncommon things when we used in the 1990s...

Calgor · 06 April 2010, 11:52

Here is some info on different mode/form specs:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...43(VS.85).aspx

IMAPI_CD_SECTOR_MODE2FORM0

With this sector type, user data has 2336 bytes per sector/frame. All Mode 2 sector types are also known as "CD-ROM XA" modes, which allows mixing of audio and data tracks on a single disc. This sector type is also known as Mode 2 "Formless", is considered deprecated, and is very seldom used.

IMAPI_CD_SECTOR_MODE2FORM0RAW

With this sector type, user data has 2352 bytes per sector/frame. This is pre-processed Mode2Form0 data sectors, with sector header, ECC/EDC, and scrambling already added to the data stream.

andreas · 06 April 2010, 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.vince

hi!

currently at work (with macs all along my desk, so i can't try)... maybe cdrwin (http://www.goldenhawk.com/) does do the trick? i remember it was able to burn very uncommon things when we used in the 1990s...

Good idea...or Exact Audio Copy?
As the name suggests, it's for audio CDs mainly, but I think the plethora of settings you can make is just fantastic. It even knows every common burner literally inside and outside - down to bit level!

@mr.vince Yeah, CDRWin!
Good you gave the link too, since there are two: the original CDRWin (GoldenHawk) and the new product with the name just nicked! The recent program called "CDRWin" with version numbers around '8' has nothing to do with the software originally branded with that name.

06 April 2010, 11:32	#255
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,574	It seems to be impossible to create working cue with mode2form0 tracks. I assumed CDI/2336 and CDI/2352 (that are documented in some cue "specifications") are form 0. DT Pro does not support them (tracks disappear), imgburn complains. Nero does not complain but burned CD does not work. (videos fail as usual) Then I tried MODE2/2336 and MODE2/2352: DT accepts them but raw read IOCTL returns errors. CCD image works fine in DT + WinUAE (after above bug fix) and when burned with CloneCD in real CDTV (unfortunately no program can read video tracks anymore, just like when attempting to dump original CD.. stupid drives.) This kind of cue works with WinUAE internal cue support (after separating tracks from ccd image, i used ancient cdmage) but just creating one for emulation seems stupid: Code: FILE "1.bin" BINARY TRACK 01 MODE1/2048 INDEX 01 00:00:00 FILE "2.bin" BINARY TRACK 02 MODE2/2336 INDEX 01 00:00:00 FILE "3.bin" BINARY TRACK 03 MODE2/2336 INDEX 01 00:00:00 FILE "4.bin" BINARY TRACK 04 MODE2/2336 INDEX 01 00:00:00 FILE "5.wav" WAVE TRACK 05 AUDIO PREGAP 00:02:00 INDEX 01 00:00:00 FILE "6.wav" WAVE TRACK 06 AUDIO INDEX 00 00:00:00 INDEX 01 00:02:00

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05 April 2010, 15:10	#241
DDNI Targ Explorer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 5,433	nice one! This has been a marathon effort. Thanks for your perseverance! I have long waited to be disappointed by this game

05 April 2010, 15:12	#242
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,817	Great News - finaly the case is solved

05 April 2010, 18:11	#244
musashi5150 move.w #$4489,$dff07e Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Norfolk, UK Age: 43 Posts: 2,351	Upload still in progress. I'll ask Truman your questions Toni and see what he says (as I don't know enough about these technologies to have an opinion). In the meantime maybe some of this information might be useful to you... "CD image was ripped from an original Amiga CDTV Sherlock Holmes CD on a PC using the Plextor 755A + special 0xD8 command and my own PC ripping software." "Tracks 2, 3 and 4 are standard mode2 formless sectors, not mode2 form2 as posted on the forum. Mode2 formless don't have ECC nor CRC bytes in the sector. The reason why PC drives refuse to read them is because the firmware programmers were too lazy to support mode2 formless sectors, and instead most drives treated them as mode2 form1 sectors, and tried to perform error correction using ECC bytes (which are infact video bytes) to correct, which is impossible."

05 April 2010, 21:46	#247
viddi Moderator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Germany Age: 44 Posts: 4,015	AWESOME!!!! Thanks a lot, musashi5150 and Truman. Case closed...hopefully.

05 April 2010, 21:51	#248
viddi Moderator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Germany Age: 44 Posts: 4,015	BTW, do I need the video files.rar archive? The "full image" one should do the trick, right?

05 April 2010, 22:31	#250
mr.vince Cheesy crust Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hawk's Creek Age: 48 Posts: 1,383	Excellent news. Although I just bought a not too expensive original copy on eBay to have it sent to a replicator to do a low level readout (they happen to have some pretty expensive verification equipment there). But again: Very well done.

05 April 2010, 23:04	#252
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,574	Sherlock image in CD emulation (tested with Daemon Tools) will work in next WinUAE beta. (without extra video files) There is tiny bug, raw read command (that didn't work with original CD due to stupid CD drives) uses wrong sector offset. Raw read start sector is sector 0, standard read starts from 150.

06 April 2010, 11:41	#256
andreas Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Germany Age: 50 Posts: 5,857	WHOHOO ! Great work, all of you! It was like those cog wheels in a clockwork: without a 100% original image, Toni would never have bothered to look for a possible bug in the CDTV emulation (with a reason, eh, or who'd like groping in the dark)

06 April 2010, 11:46	#257
TCD HOL/FTP busy bee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 46 Posts: 32,022	Great news everyone (especially my man Mr. Musashen )

06 April 2010, 11:52	#259
Calgor (Amigas && Amigos)++ Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Anrea Posts: 999	Here is some info on different mode/form specs: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...43(VS.85).aspx IMAPI_CD_SECTOR_MODE2FORM0 With this sector type, user data has 2336 bytes per sector/frame. All Mode 2 sector types are also known as "CD-ROM XA" modes, which allows mixing of audio and data tracks on a single disc. This sector type is also known as Mode 2 "Formless", is considered deprecated, and is very seldom used. IMAPI_CD_SECTOR_MODE2FORM0RAW With this sector type, user data has 2352 bytes per sector/frame. This is pre-processed Mode2Form0 data sectors, with sector header, ECC/EDC, and scrambling already added to the data stream.

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