Commodore Amiga Global Alliance

[modrobert]

Originally Posted by BSzili

Someone even made a link collection within a day to prove a point.

Wow, looks incredibly hard to manage, requires a lot of resources to serve all those page requests every day (in the hundreds!), and extensive manpower to keep all the URLs up to date. I can't even begin to imagine the stress involved to maintain something of this magnitude.

[Chucky]

Amigabill also posted a thead on facepalm asking to be removed from the kickstarter.

lets hope David wakes up and removes the kickstarter.

[lmimmfn]

Originally Posted by Chucky

Amigabill also posted a thead on facepalm asking to be removed from the kickstarter.

lets hope David wakes up and removes the kickstarter.

interesting, what does it say? don't have facepalm account

[crabfists]

Do you have a link to Amiga Bill's post please?

[TCD]

Originally Posted by crabfists

Do you have a link to Amiga Bill's post please?

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...00003362304761

[Chucky]

Originally Posted by lmimmfn

interesting, what does it say? don't have facepalm account

cannot do a decent screenshot here to eab at current place (as I need to link to a picture) so I cut n paste the text:


Greetings to the amazing Amiga community. I am writing this post because my image is on David Pleasance’s AGA Kickstarter and many of you have reached out asking about that so I will explain. Many people come to me for help, advice, and to promote their project here in the Amiga community. It gives me a lot of pleasure to form friendships and help people out. I love Amiga but I love the Amiga community even more, so naturally I jump at the chance to help when someone asks because I want to see great things happen for the Amiga community. It is unbelievable how active and how many amazing projects are currently happening for a computer that is almost 40 years old. That is a testament to how special this community is.
David came to me about his project a very long time ago - way before it was a Kickstarter. Like many of you reading this, David has become a friend and I really enjoy hanging out with him at Amiga events. I even wrote the forward to one of his books which was an honor. I liked the idea of a website that listed all things Amiga because people often ask me where they can get their Amiga fixed, where they can buy parts/upgrades, where they can ask people for help, etc… I thought it would be good to have a website I could point them to with all this info clearly listed. So I said great - and that is the extent of my involvement in this project. I haven’t paid much attention since, and I don’t have anything to gain from it other than satisfaction if it helped Amiga community members.
Over time many things have evolved including the formation of a really neat retro directory website and David’s project became a Kickstarter. I should have paid more attention to what was being planned for this project because I agree with much of the thoughtful and constructive criticism about this project from Amiga community members whom I respect. Perhaps if I was involved and gave feedback things could have been different, but who knows? I have also seen projects that I doubted go on to become great successes, so who am I to judge? A project like this is way out of my area of expertise and not something I choose to spend time on. I stick to streams, videos, and the Westchester Amiga User Group. This is a valuable learning experience for me and I will adjust my approach to situations like this moving forward. David, I am here if you want to chat, bounce ideas off me, want advice, or just talk during this difficult time. Please kindly remove me from the Kickstarter page. My father passed away 3 weeks ago and today is his birthday so I need to focus my energy my family. Thank you so much.

[lmimmfn]

Originally Posted by Chucky

cannot do a decent screenshot here to eab at current place (as I need to link to a picture) so I cut n paste the text:


Greetings to the amazing Amiga community. I am writing this post because my image is on David Pleasance’s AGA Kickstarter and many of you have reached out asking about that so I will explain. Many people come to me for help, advice, and to promote their project here in the Amiga community. It gives me a lot of pleasure to form friendships and help people out. I love Amiga but I love the Amiga community even more, so naturally I jump at the chance to help when someone asks because I want to see great things happen for the Amiga community. It is unbelievable how active and how many amazing projects are currently happening for a computer that is almost 40 years old. That is a testament to how special this community is.
David came to me about his project a very long time ago - way before it was a Kickstarter. Like many of you reading this, David has become a friend and I really enjoy hanging out with him at Amiga events. I even wrote the forward to one of his books which was an honor. I liked the idea of a website that listed all things Amiga because people often ask me where they can get their Amiga fixed, where they can buy parts/upgrades, where they can ask people for help, etc… I thought it would be good to have a website I could point them to with all this info clearly listed. So I said great - and that is the extent of my involvement in this project. I haven’t paid much attention since, and I don’t have anything to gain from it other than satisfaction if it helped Amiga community members.
Over time many things have evolved including the formation of a really neat retro directory website and David’s project became a Kickstarter. I should have paid more attention to what was being planned for this project because I agree with much of the thoughtful and constructive criticism about this project from Amiga community members whom I respect. Perhaps if I was involved and gave feedback things could have been different, but who knows? I have also seen projects that I doubted go on to become great successes, so who am I to judge? A project like this is way out of my area of expertise and not something I choose to spend time on. I stick to streams, videos, and the Westchester Amiga User Group. This is a valuable learning experience for me and I will adjust my approach to situations like this moving forward. David, I am here if you want to chat, bounce ideas off me, want advice, or just talk during this difficult time. Please kindly remove me from the Kickstarter page. My father passed away 3 weeks ago and today is his birthday so I need to focus my energy my family. Thank you so much.

Thanks mate. Sad about Bills dad

Strange(when he mentions that "Over time many things have evolved including the formation of a really neat retro directory website and David’s project became a Kickstarter") that he has a testimonial on the Kickstarter and is also listed in the Community help section "We also have some dedicated Amiga fans from the community who have kindly offered to lend their knowledge and assistance on community liason and promotion, including:

"Amiga Bill" Bill Winters - USA"

He seems to have not known about the KS plan, im wondering if other than the team listed if all the others are only loosely associated with this, i mean if when asked in the past on the concept that they just said, yes, you can use my name as a supporter etc. without knowing about the KS.

Bills Testimonial also has him as a "Proud Founding Member Of AGA"

[Chucky]

I was asked by David and in that discussions there was never a talk about a kickstarter.
I however backed out very quick when I understood it was a subscription.

but I get the interpretion that the discussion about a kickstarter was well not brought up.
and then there was a talk about a kickstarter. but no real money mentioned.. I suspected "ok maybe need to fund a server or so.." that would be needed.. but.. not those amounts of cash.

so people maybe haven't been lied to.. but maybe some info been omitted..

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by Chucky

I was asked by David and in that discussions there was never a talk about a kickstarter.
I however backed out very quick when I understood it was a subscription.

but I get the interpretion that the discussion about a kickstarter was well not brought up.
and then there was a talk about a kickstarter. but no real money mentioned.. I suspected "ok maybe need to fund a server or so.." that would be needed.. but.. not those amounts of cash.

so people maybe haven't been lied to.. but maybe some info been omitted..

A lie by omission then!

It's quite obvious to me that David thought about this idea without actually bothering to go look for himself and see what just what state the Amiga community was in, because if he had done that basic bit of research, he would have come to the conclusion "Amiga community has its shit sorted, no need for my proposal".

Therefore one can only conclude he looked and then thought "Sod it, I'm doing it anyway" or simply just didn't check at all.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Therefore one can only conclude he looked and then thought "Sod it, I'm doing it anyway" or simply just didn't check at all.

Which is a pretty big omission when you want to unite all Amigans

[BSzili]

It seems to be a common thread among the public supporters that they endorsed (C)AGA without understanding that there will be a Kickstarter and subscriptions. Maybe it wasn't mentioned, maybe they didn't pay attention, whatever. I'm not trying to make excuses for them. My point is that this explains how the project seemingly ended up with so many of these testimonials.

[modrobert]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

A lie by omission then!

It's quite obvious to me that David thought about this idea without actually bothering to go look for himself and see what just what state the Amiga community was in, because if he had done that basic bit of research, he would have come to the conclusion "Amiga community has its shit sorted, no need for my proposal".

Therefore one can only conclude he looked and then thought "Sod it, I'm doing it anyway" or simply just didn't check at all.

Maybe it wasn't intentional, an honest mistake, but then early on someone close to him should have had the guts to say something along the lines: "What are you on about? The Amiga community exist already, and there are plenty of websites out there supporting it already."

In my experience regarding hobby communities, it's better to start something like this first and if other people like it they will support, even financially if needed. As opposed to starting with a paid membership club handing out SWAG, and then plan some kind of services as an afterthought.

[arcanist]

Originally Posted by Olaf Barthel

The point I was trying to make is that today's Internet has changed so much from the early days, in which curated content was the norm (because we did not have search engines yet), that information which is not as structured and ready-made for automated consumption and indexing will fall short for content that currently is available for the Amiga. Our online forums, web sites and archives are still there, but indexing their content is shallow at best. If there has to be better access, it would have to come from what, by necessity, used to work: curating content.

What I'd like to see is an Amiga resource search engine.

Google has the basics down but it is not exhaustive. It doesn't fully index the Amiga forums, the FTP sites, the old newsgroups, out of print books, magazines (very useful OCR project in there), Amiga source code, and so on. What it does index has retention problems over time and skews results towards newer content.

Combining the basic idea of a curated list of sites and data, allowing users to submit more, with a crawler - perhaps even with data dumps provided by larger sites - and search front-end could tackle some of these problems. Sadly, though, I suspect it's out of hobby scope for even our more motivated technical community members.

[AmigaSource]

Hello everyone,

I didn't plan on posting this right now but hey why not... I don't know if this is what people are looking for but since the AGA kickstarter has not been well received I thought I would do a bit of shameless self promotion. (Note: Personally I like idea of the AGA. At least someone is trying to do something!!) I've started to really work on my site again so here it goes...

Deep down we all know the Amiga will never make a serious comback but that's not the point. We're here because we all have a special place in our hearts for her and she STILL makes us happy!! And let's be serious, the last few years for the Amiga have been some of the BEST since the collapse of Commodore. More new hardware and software that you can shake a stick at. Retro computing is HOT and we have the BEST retro computer around!!

So if anyone likes a site of just LINKS and INFORMATION let me introduce you to my, ALWAYS UNDER CONSTRUCTION, AmigaSource.com. Born out of the ashes of the LONG defunct Amiga Web Directory, for the past 21 years I have been cataloging virtually EVERY Amiga related website known to man. The current searchable database has over 1400 links (Note: Sadly quite a few are no longer still with us. But remember... Let Archive.org be your friend)

My goal is be a one stop place for EVERYTHING Amiga. I don't create the information on the site I only find, sort, assemble it into useable packages and present it to the visitor to enjoy!

Yes, I know the site looks like it's from the early 2000's. It is! Yes I know it's simple. Yes, I know there are better ways of doing this. Yes, I know it's CRAP but I'm happy! The site is STILL functional on ibrowse/aweb from 1994 and that's all I care about. (Note: Yes, I know the current ssl cert can prevent it from working with ibrowse/aweb but internal testing shows it does work. v2.0 of the site will fix this issue)

While I have YET to finish with my initial dream for the site, I'm still here. To be honest I'm kinda lazy and life just got in the way!! But now l have more time in my life and I want to dedicate it back to the community.

If you look at the past 3 years I've really picked up my effort and added more that 1500+ links to the main pages alone. (note: Yes, I know I need to add them to the main database so they can be viewed/searched within their respective categories. I'm WORKING on it!!!) I'm also sitting on a folder with 3162 more links I still need to go through. Lots of work ahead.

I think the key thing to remember is while a lot of the older sites are no longer with us I STILL know about them and I can still catalog them with the help of Archive.org!

On a HAPPY note I've started work on v2.0. Some of the new features I hope to include will be: all pages dynamically generated (no longer will I have to manually edit html code on the backside to add a link), more categories & sub categories, allowing users to rate a site and add comments, a small forum, pics & file sharing area, user accounts (then I can have sub admins), real time adding and editing the categories a site can be placed in, TONS of updated pages dedicated just to current information such as magazines, vendors, service shops, crowd funding, links for news and information, events and much more.

As I was telling another user will it solve the world's issues? No. Will it fix the current issues with the Amiga? No. Could it help? Can't hurt!! I'm a firm believer that "something is always better than nothing". Can this help fill a small gap needed in the community? Maybe... And that's my plan!!

I'm happy that along with the 480 new links added on the main page so far this year, I also have up to date listings of the current magazines, crowd funding projects, and calendar events. I even try to keep up with the latest on the legal soap opera too.

Again, I know its crap but at least I'm still here trying to do something good for the community. All suggestions, comments offers to help are always gladly appreciated!

So with that said I'll stop rambling. I hope you stop by and take a look.

Scott P
AmigaSource.com
webmaster@amigasource.com

[dreamkatcha]

I suppose your best guage with regards to deciding if it's still worthwhile is the level of traffic. Are people visiting and how deeply do they explore after landing on the index? If few do I expect Google is fulfilling their needs.

Thumbs up for perseverance though. That's a lot of work for one person.

[AmigaSource]

@dreamkatcha & all

Thanks! It's ALWAYS been a labor of love!

Obviously I would LOVE more people visiting my site but I'm happy if even ONE person thinks it's helpful. Hopefully this will change soon when I finish v2.0 and let everyone know about it.

One thing I will I have that google will never will is the hundreds of links that would have been 'lost to time' thanks to Archive.org. While most of it may no longer be useful it's like coming across an old computer magazine. You know you like it when you see it

I'm quite sure I've spent hundreds of dollars over the years and I've never asked for any money or donations or have any advertisements. It's not my style. I do it for MYSELF and the COMMUNITY and I'll keep doing it for the next 21+ years god willing!

Sure google is everyones main go to but it can get messy quite quickly. Most of the times by the 2nd page good luck finding what you're looking for. This is where an Amiga only site with help for the visitors to fine tune the catalog will be a big plus!!

Scott P

[dreamkatcha]

No doubt it'll become more useful as Google continue down the route of sabotaging their own results with irrelevant (probably paid for) junk. YouTube is as bad as Google now with results bearing little relation to search terms. Why would you want to be informed of what's already in your 'watch later' list? Or care that viewers of a channel you watch also watch channel x? Patronising Muppets.

[AmigaSource]

Originally Posted by dreamkatcha

No doubt it'll become more useful as Google continue down the route of sabotaging their own results with irrelevant (probably paid for) junk. YouTube is as bad as Google now with results bearing little relation to search terms. Why would you want to be informed of what's already in your 'watch later' list? Or care that viewers of a channel you watch also watch channel x? Patronising Muppets.

EXACTLY!! I can guarantee when v2.0 is finally up and running and you search for "Amiga" ALL 3000+ results will be 100% Amiga related!

Scott P

[a_crow]

Originally Posted by AmigaSource

As I was telling another user will it solve the world's issues? No. Will it fix the current issues with the Amiga? No. Could it help? Can't hurt!! I'm a firm believer that "something is always better than nothing". Can this help fill a small gap needed in the community? Maybe... And that's my plan!

As long as you don't try and charge £38 a year to access and/or be featured on your site then I doubt you will incur the ire of the community at large.


The argument has never been against people making new Amiga websites. The more, the merrier.


The backlash against AGA is specifically regarding the idea of rounding up things that already exist and have been working fine as they are for years and attempting to erect an arbitrary and exclusionary paywall around them.

[AmigaBill]

Chucky, thank you for all your support with this situation. Next time we meet at an Amiga event the beer is certainly on me - you know which kind Folks like you and many others here on EAB are the real magicians of the community - I am just a hype man. I popped in to say that I asked to be removed from the Kickstarter and I was. In the mean time I am seeing AmigaSource.com for the first time. It is really fantastic ! EDIT: Oh wow, Boing.directory too. That is great stuff guys.