Removing yellowing from Amigas with peroxide

[Merlin]

I'd say that was pretty damn conclusive, and no heat required.....

Well done Tony.



Merlin

PS. Can you please tell me what your process conditions were (amount of OXy, strength of H2O2, etc...)?

Thanks

[tonyyeb]

Originally Posted by Merlin

I'd say that was pretty damn conclusive, and no heat required.....

Well done Tony.



Merlin

PS. Can you please tell me what your process conditions were (amount of OXy, strength of H2O2, etc...)?

Thanks

Cheers Merlin. Your help along with others made it possible. I'm going to write a little guide to how I did it along with pics. Maybe it could be stickied when I'm done.

[Merlin]

If you need help with the guide, shout up; I know I promised to do one recently, but I've not had the time.

[laser]

tonyyeb,

you need at least 24 hs to get a good result




Merlin,

maybe you are right about UV light..I'm not a chemical expert
but warm air is a good alternative to accelerate....and maybe the fastest one

anyways the reaction will be done with or without heat or UV light .....I tested that also.....

it needs more time......about 3-4 days I calculate and it depends of the h2o2 concentration
the slow option is green cause no extra energy is required for the UV lamp or the stove and you will contribute to salve the planet

[tonyyeb]

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=458725#post458725

Here it is. Any tips / additions you think will help, let me know and ill add them.

[tonyyeb]

Originally Posted by laser

tonyyeb,

you need at least 24 hs to get a good result

This is a good result!

I used 30% H202 and a UV lamp - these seem to be considered the best conditions at the moment. And I think the results speak for themselves. They wont get much better than that I don't think.

[laser]

Originally Posted by tonyyeb

This is a good result!

I used 30% H202 and a UV lamp - these seem to be considered the best conditions at the moment. And I think the results speak for themselves. They wont get much better than that I don't think.

yes...was great !!....I have seen......in your case was really faster cause you have used a strong 30% h2o2 solution

I experimented with 20%...also it works...it needs more time..that's all

bye

[tonyyeb]

Maybe so. Next time ill give it a go with something less stronger, you can get 12% from Sallys Hair Dressing Supplies I think.

[Merlin]

Hey guys,

Eight hours or so to remove nearly 15 years+ of yellowing has to be a result... I think we've achieved near to perfect process conditions and they are reproduceable, that is stunning....everyone now knows how to replicate this process.

Thanks

Merlin

PS - Tony - just dilute the stuff you already have a bit more, or am I being Captain Obvious?

LOL

[tonyyeb]

Lol. Yeah could do that but I was going for the more precise 'get the stuff at that concentration in the first place'. Then other people (non believers) who can't get the high strength can see it will work with stuff they can buy of the shelf without being considered a terrorist.

[Eclipse]

It's amazing what one extra oxygen atom can do.

[Merlin]

Originally Posted by Eclipse

It's amazing what one extra oxygen atom can do.

It's more amazing what science abuse we can get up to removing it!!

Okay i have read through this thread and wonder would this type of product work to restore the old yellowed plastics color too???

http://www.sallybeauty.com/Clairoxid...efault,pd.html

Also where are you guys buying the 30% h202? and what is the average pricing?!

Thanks!

[rkauer]

They sell a stronger one (40vol) for the same price. Also 3.3 USD for half a litre is quite OK.

I've paid 9BRL (~4USD) for 35VOL 1l (~32oz) in here.

Originally Posted by PalKat

Okay i have read through this thread and wonder would this type of product work to restore the old yellowed plastics color too???

http://www.sallybeauty.com/Clairoxid...efault,pd.html

Also where are you guys buying the 30% h202? and what is the average pricing?!

Thanks!

Originally Posted by [URL="http://eab.abime.net/member.php?u=10188"

rkauer[/url]]They sell a stronger one (40vol) for the same price. Also 3.3 USD for half a litre is quite OK.

I've paid 9BRL (~4USD) for 35VOL 1l (~32oz) in here.

I saw that rkauer, and will go that route, THANKS Merlin and tonyyeb for all the info and motivation!!! I have an attic filled with c64s, c128s, SX-64s, and an original one of the first 500 built Amiga 1000s and mac classics that i will be going to our local Sally Beauty to buy some product (the wife will be happy as she thinks were going to get her stuff also) and will start experimenting friday...I live in (Albuquerque Area) New Mexico, USA so we have a LOTTA sun, concidering were in a 7 year drought all we have is sun so cant wait to start!!!!!

I will post info and pics when i get operation RESTORE TO THE 80's starts!!!! LOL

Okay forgive this question...lol...so not only do i collect old 8bit machines but also toys...would this process to remove yellow uv age work on say old he-man or GI joe toys/figures from the 80's with out ruining them???

[rkauer]

Yes, the figures will be fine after the bath. Vinyl paint is strong enough to face water.

[Merlin]

@ PalKat

It will work on toys, in fact, I think tonyyeb did his first experiments with a part from an old Transformers toy.

Also, we have to have 'before' and 'after' pictures of your tests, we likes our pr0n we does...

[tonyyeb]

Originally Posted by Merlin

@ PalKat

It will work on toys, in fact, I think tonyyeb did his first experiments with a part from an old Transformers toy.

Also, we have to have 'before' and 'after' pictures of your tests, we likes our pr0n we does...

Nah not me but i've seen that on a forum somewhere so yes it can be done.

[Zetr0]

@Scientific Synopsis

Unlike clorine bleaching agents H2O2 is not a base, it is an agressive oxidizer, infact so aggresive that above 60% NASA consider this a fuel source for rocket engines in its own right.

in respects to what is being done here, we are creating a chemical environment around the item that is very hungry for oxygen atoms, by adding TAED (also an oxidizer accelerant) we make this environment even more hungry for oxygen.

the yellowing of plastics is due to the bromine component that is found in the flame retardant mixure of the plastic's, over time, we get a co-ordinate bond (weak bond) where the bromine replaces a hydrogen atom with an oxygen atom.

Now we place this plastic item in our oxygen hungry liquid and over time this will break the the weak oxygen bond of the bromide molecule and replace a hydrogen at the end of the chain.

so where does the Ultra Violet come in?

UV light has a quite lot to do with the bromine / bromide process, when used with our oxygen hungry environment, the charged electrons hit the larger oxygen atoms causing them to change thier spin and charge alignement, this makes them repuse more in thier covalent bonded structure once the oxygen atom has moved away from the bromine atom so far it get taken by the environment and the bromine replaces this with a hydrogen atom.

UV light Friend or Foe?

UV light also plays a large factor in the yellowing process, over time, while the material is hit with UV energy the covalent bond with the hydrogen is repulsed so far that the normal environment takes it, this leaves the bromine needing a partner, and a oxygen atom is always free and easy

but thats not the end of UV energy,

UV energy has a resonance effect on some atomic structures, and yes you have guessed it Bromine is one of them, this resonance can change the structural order of bromine, although this might not sound impressive as its just 2Br from Br2, this change in structure also changes its electron pulling ability, kinda like getting it dressed up for a Saturday night

so is this the end of the story.... wel no... theres a little more


Clorine Based BASE approach (Bleach)

now as some have experimented with Clorine based Bleaching agents, and have reported success. so know it does work, why?

Now its unlikely you will remember your Halogen's table from science at school, hell i had to google it. now clorine sits just above bromine in the perodic table (yes that collection of squares and letters and numbers) this means thats its around half the atomic mass of bromine.



How does the Clorine based approach work?

The clorine based base approach works not by substituting a covalent bond such as oxygen from bromide, it instead removes the bromine in favour of clorine.

this actually changes the chemical property of the flame retardant chemistry by substituting a clorine atom that is just over half the size, so at half the size you could pack twice as many in the same space.

now this actually works, however there is a sting in its tail thats going to come back and bite us on the ass.

now clorine atoms like bromine atoms like to hang out with an oxygen atoms, this over time causes will cause a serious problem. now that we have packed the same space with two clorine atoms, both wanting an oxygen atom, we have destablized the plastic making it VERY brittle and weak.

so in effect yes Clorine based approach works in removing yellowing, however it will destablize the plastic so much so that once the clorine begins to bond with oxygen the resulting molecular structure of the flame retardant makes the plastic very brittle and weak.

you can thank a lot of the above research to our resident wizard of chemistry (Merlin) as there were many brain storming phone calls

@Merlicious

cant stay away can you?! good to see ya m8y nice to know you can't keep a good wizard down