Scorpion Engine - Page 115

flibble42 · 09 July 2022, 12:58

Maybe someone who gets drunk less than i do can help me with this. I can't keep my player car in Spy Hunter from leaving the right side of the screen. I seem to remember a live stream where Earok used solid blocks off the side of the screen to prevent the player leaving. If i increase the width of the screen so the block is visible things work fine but not desirable. I assume it's a case of out of sight out of mind, am i missing something or has it always been this way?

acidbottle · 09 July 2022, 16:27

If its just the actor then you can select the actor tab, in bottom right corner on leave screen then snap to screen.

flibble42 · 09 July 2022, 16:32

Well i'll be a monkeys uncle

flibble42 · 11 July 2022, 11:22

Just been looking at Choplifter, not on my list of projects but it got me thinking, this a thought experiment not a feature request.

Would it be possible to scroll the map in a similar way to the hardware sprites system?

Limited to 16px slices.

All slices move together in the same direction (left or right) but at different speeds.

For Choplifter for instance, you could have moving clouds, long or none repeating mountains, basically a very coarse version of the HW sprite system. The ground would still be rendered with HW sprites as 16px wide will work for that. And the buildings would be blitter objects placed in the map.

As i say just a thought experiment.

earok · 11 July 2022, 12:21

@flibble42 At some stage I want to investigate being able to do "line by line" scrolling (which would primarily be useful in an Outrun style game), which *might* make something like that possible, but would add additional complications (eg, the helicopter would scroll with the clouds, or even be split in two if it's only partly over the clouds)

flibble42 · 11 July 2022, 12:26

Yeah, i can imagine all sorts of issues, tracking event blocks and platforms as well.

I was re-reading Codetappers web page, and at first i was thinking "that would be nice in Scorpion" etc, but in reality most of the tricks are specific to the project, have one use and would not be suitable for Scorpion.

Correct me if i'm wrong, Scorpion is meant to be a Swiss army knife, a tool kit, all features should be able to be used in any crazy way the developer can think of.

I do try (it might not seem like it) when i ask for something to make sure it is multi-purpose, or an expansion of an existing feature that others will hopefully find a use for.

So all that said, the one feature on Codetappers website, and it comes up quite a bit, that could be useful all round would be *Drum Roll* re-usable HW sprites. I don't know how well Blitz supported the feature so it may just be a none starter, and of course this is just my opinion.

That was a feature request

Subtle aren't I...

flibble42 · 11 July 2022, 13:43

I can't remember if i saw this, is it possible to invert a TRUE/FALSE using a single Set Variable instruction? If so, how? Please

Mixel · 11 July 2022, 16:01

This might sound dumb but.. What's a reuseable hardware sprite? Aren't they all reuseable? (genuinely not knowing what you mean by that, hehe)

If there is a way to flip a True/false I don't know how to do it either.. I guess if I really had to I'd make a codeblock saying if it's true, make it false, and if it's false make it true, and gosub it?

Silverstreak · 11 July 2022, 16:31

It's referring to the Amiga's sprite limit to having 8 sprites (I think) per scan line, but you can reuse them depending on where the scan line is. I'm pretty sure scorpion does something a bit like this anyway?

(As an aside, RJ Micheal was working on an animation system for KS 1.3 before being let go, that allowed for 50 hw sprites and more. Shame. Still that might partly explain why he is a fan of this project.)

Mixel · 11 July 2022, 18:14

Ah thanks! That sounds like the multiplexing thing? That works with really weird palette management and it seem like total witchcraft to me at least.. Eerok has it working really nicely in gunsmoke.. And there's the Bullet Hell demo in "Scorpion Editor Demos/Simple Examples" but i think you need multiple copies of entire colour ranges and that can be difficult to pull off when you've already got a limited palette.

flibble42 · 11 July 2022, 19:12

I'll be honest, at this point i'm not entirely sure i know what i mean. I do know that for Spy Hunter i will probably need 8 hw sprites at the top of the screen, 3 for the current score, 2 for the timer in the middle and another 3 for the high score. Then another 2 or 4 at the bottom of the screen for the weapon display. So i need to "reuse" 2 or 4 sprites, if Scorpion already does this then forget everything i just said, i wasn't paying attention.

foleyjo · 12 July 2022, 00:04

For the true/false invert could you set the true/false to 1 and -1 and then just multilly the variable by -1?
Not sure if you can actually change the values assigned to the constants as I've never tried

TCD · 12 July 2022, 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by flibble42

I can't remember if i saw this, is it possible to invert a TRUE/FALSE using a single Set Variable instruction? If so, how? Please

I don't know the Scorpion Engine, but the operator could be !, so the instruction could be 'var = !var'.

earok · 12 July 2022, 03:36

Re: flipping true/false, there's no support for the "!" operator but there is a trick I learned from reading the Wolfenstein 3D source code that can be used to invert a "0" into a "1" and vice versa.

Variable = 1 - Variable

You can then test if "equals 0" or "equals 1"

Scorpion does have limited support for multiplexing sprites on the same scanline (the OCS parallax system) and multiplexing sprites on different scanlines (the bullet hell demo) but that's about all that can be done with it right now. With Gunsmoke, I opted to use a relatively small panel at the top rather than attempting to overlay sprites on the playfield for score.

---

[ Show youtube player ]

Posted the development stream between me and BitBeamCannon on our Scorpion Boy project to YouTube.

We're planning to do a follow up session at 9AM UTC (a bit under 8 hours from now) at https://twitch.tv/earok

flibble42 · 12 July 2022, 10:31

Is that UTC+0 or UTC Co-ordinated in the windows clock settings, i'm guessing the later as that is 10 am UK time which is your usual stream time.

gimbal · 12 July 2022, 12:15

You know the C in UTC stands for coordinated

I think you're simply asking if this is UTC+0 or UTC+1.

(Live right now, in any case).

flibble42 · 12 July 2022, 12:44

My main clock is BST/GMT for the UK but i have a secondary clock I think Windows just needed the clocks resetting, i was on UTC +0 London which was giving me UK time but when i switched to UTC co-ordinated the time changed. It all confuses me, and many others apparently

UltraNarwhal · 12 July 2022, 13:03

Is NTSC compatibility still in Scorpion? I see Mixel's game running in it, but setting WinUAE to NTSC for my games result in software failure.

Mixel · 12 July 2022, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltraNarwhal

Is NTSC compatibility still in Scorpion? I see Mixel's game running in it, but setting WinUAE to NTSC for my games result in software failure.

Thats odd.. If I set the chipset to NTSC and the Display to NTSC in WinUAE it just works here.. (with an A1200/ks3.1 spec) could it be a kickstart thing?

UltraNarwhal · 12 July 2022, 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixel

Thats odd.. If I set the chipset to NTSC and the Display to NTSC in WinUAE it just works here.. (with an A1200/ks3.1 spec) could it be a kickstart thing?

I got it working now, but only by running via workbench.

11 July 2022, 11:22	#2284
flibble42 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: UK Age: 51 Posts: 282	Just been looking at Choplifter, not on my list of projects but it got me thinking, this a thought experiment not a feature request. Would it be possible to scroll the map in a similar way to the hardware sprites system? Limited to 16px slices. All slices move together in the same direction (left or right) but at different speeds. For Choplifter for instance, you could have moving clouds, long or none repeating mountains, basically a very coarse version of the HW sprite system. The ground would still be rendered with HW sprites as 16px wide will work for that. And the buildings would be blitter objects placed in the map. As i say just a thought experiment. Last edited by flibble42; 11 July 2022 at 11:29.

11 July 2022, 12:26	#2286
flibble42 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: UK Age: 51 Posts: 282	Yeah, i can imagine all sorts of issues, tracking event blocks and platforms as well. I was re-reading Codetappers web page, and at first i was thinking "that would be nice in Scorpion" etc, but in reality most of the tricks are specific to the project, have one use and would not be suitable for Scorpion. Correct me if i'm wrong, Scorpion is meant to be a Swiss army knife, a tool kit, all features should be able to be used in any crazy way the developer can think of. I do try (it might not seem like it) when i ask for something to make sure it is multi-purpose, or an expansion of an existing feature that others will hopefully find a use for. So all that said, the one feature on Codetappers website, and it comes up quite a bit, that could be useful all round would be Drum Roll re-usable HW sprites. I don't know how well Blitz supported the feature so it may just be a none starter, and of course this is just my opinion. That was a feature request Subtle aren't I... Last edited by flibble42; 11 July 2022 at 12:58.

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09 July 2022, 12:58	#2281
flibble42 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: UK Age: 51 Posts: 282	Maybe someone who gets drunk less than i do can help me with this. I can't keep my player car in Spy Hunter from leaving the right side of the screen. I seem to remember a live stream where Earok used solid blocks off the side of the screen to prevent the player leaving. If i increase the width of the screen so the block is visible things work fine but not desirable. I assume it's a case of out of sight out of mind, am i missing something or has it always been this way?

09 July 2022, 16:27	#2282
acidbottle Registered User Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Scotland Posts: 843	If its just the actor then you can select the actor tab, in bottom right corner on leave screen then snap to screen.

09 July 2022, 16:32	#2283
flibble42 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: UK Age: 51 Posts: 282	Well i'll be a monkeys uncle

11 July 2022, 12:21	#2285
earok Registered User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Auckland Posts: 3,547	@flibble42 At some stage I want to investigate being able to do "line by line" scrolling (which would primarily be useful in an Outrun style game), which might make something like that possible, but would add additional complications (eg, the helicopter would scroll with the clouds, or even be split in two if it's only partly over the clouds)

11 July 2022, 13:43	#2287
flibble42 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: UK Age: 51 Posts: 282	I can't remember if i saw this, is it possible to invert a TRUE/FALSE using a single Set Variable instruction? If so, how? Please

11 July 2022, 16:01	#2288
Mixel Registered User Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Leeds, UK Posts: 770	This might sound dumb but.. What's a reuseable hardware sprite? Aren't they all reuseable? (genuinely not knowing what you mean by that, hehe) If there is a way to flip a True/false I don't know how to do it either.. I guess if I really had to I'd make a codeblock saying if it's true, make it false, and if it's false make it true, and gosub it?

11 July 2022, 16:31	#2289
Silverstreak Registered User Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: London Posts: 124	It's referring to the Amiga's sprite limit to having 8 sprites (I think) per scan line, but you can reuse them depending on where the scan line is. I'm pretty sure scorpion does something a bit like this anyway? (As an aside, RJ Micheal was working on an animation system for KS 1.3 before being let go, that allowed for 50 hw sprites and more. Shame. Still that might partly explain why he is a fan of this project.)

11 July 2022, 18:14	#2290
Mixel Registered User Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Leeds, UK Posts: 770	Ah thanks! That sounds like the multiplexing thing? That works with really weird palette management and it seem like total witchcraft to me at least.. Eerok has it working really nicely in gunsmoke.. And there's the Bullet Hell demo in "Scorpion Editor Demos/Simple Examples" but i think you need multiple copies of entire colour ranges and that can be difficult to pull off when you've already got a limited palette.

11 July 2022, 19:12	#2291
flibble42 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: UK Age: 51 Posts: 282	I'll be honest, at this point i'm not entirely sure i know what i mean. I do know that for Spy Hunter i will probably need 8 hw sprites at the top of the screen, 3 for the current score, 2 for the timer in the middle and another 3 for the high score. Then another 2 or 4 at the bottom of the screen for the weapon display. So i need to "reuse" 2 or 4 sprites, if Scorpion already does this then forget everything i just said, i wasn't paying attention.

12 July 2022, 00:04	#2292
foleyjo Registered User Join Date: May 2022 Location: STOCKTON ON TEES Posts: 12	For the true/false invert could you set the true/false to 1 and -1 and then just multilly the variable by -1? Not sure if you can actually change the values assigned to the constants as I've never tried

12 July 2022, 03:36	#2294
earok Registered User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Auckland Posts: 3,547	Re: flipping true/false, there's no support for the "!" operator but there is a trick I learned from reading the Wolfenstein 3D source code that can be used to invert a "0" into a "1" and vice versa. Variable = 1 - Variable You can then test if "equals 0" or "equals 1" Scorpion does have limited support for multiplexing sprites on the same scanline (the OCS parallax system) and multiplexing sprites on different scanlines (the bullet hell demo) but that's about all that can be done with it right now. With Gunsmoke, I opted to use a relatively small panel at the top rather than attempting to overlay sprites on the playfield for score. --- [ Show youtube player ] Posted the development stream between me and BitBeamCannon on our Scorpion Boy project to YouTube. We're planning to do a follow up session at 9AM UTC (a bit under 8 hours from now) at https://twitch.tv/earok

12 July 2022, 10:31	#2295
flibble42 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: UK Age: 51 Posts: 282	Is that UTC+0 or UTC Co-ordinated in the windows clock settings, i'm guessing the later as that is 10 am UK time which is your usual stream time.

12 July 2022, 12:15	#2296
gimbal cheeky scoundrel Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Spijkenisse/Netherlands Age: 42 Posts: 6,962	You know the C in UTC stands for coordinated I think you're simply asking if this is UTC+0 or UTC+1. (Live right now, in any case).

12 July 2022, 12:44	#2297
flibble42 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: UK Age: 51 Posts: 282	My main clock is BST/GMT for the UK but i have a secondary clock I think Windows just needed the clocks resetting, i was on UTC +0 London which was giving me UK time but when i switched to UTC co-ordinated the time changed. It all confuses me, and many others apparently

12 July 2022, 13:03	#2298
UltraNarwhal Registered User Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: UK Posts: 303	Is NTSC compatibility still in Scorpion? I see Mixel's game running in it, but setting WinUAE to NTSC for my games result in software failure.

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