04 July 2019, 03:01 | #201 |
Moon 1969 = amiga 1985
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I wasn't disappointed at first,
But after a year, iwas still waiting for an aga shocking game like a sotb in 256 colours with everything 2x better than sotb 1 but nothing happened and even more scary, you had good games like second samurai, brian the lion and the difference with the a500 version were too little !!! But i still in the course because i was waiting for announced incredibles games like ... heu sorry i don't remember the names, you know all dos games around 1993-1994, then commodore f...ed and it was the end. But not for me, it was too late i bought an amiga 4000 and i stay to 2002 something like that, perhaps more. I was happy with my a4000, browsing internet was very fast and the power of a 060 50mhz combined with a light OS like the workbench did the job. When i was comparing the speed of this OS vs win 2000 or millenium i was in paradise with a 060, really. resumed : 1st i was happy 2nd disappointed by the games 3rd happy with a powerfull a4000, what help me is that i had the money at this time to buy an A4000 without that i would have go away for a long time, i think. |
04 July 2019, 03:51 | #202 | |
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Quote:
They could have put an X86 CPU on a board, maybe some local RAM so it had a chance at being fast. Then I don't know put some ISA slots in so you could actually use one of the Amazing ISA VGA and sound cards if you wanted. Even make it like a ... sort of a bridge over to the ISA bus, on a board? Nevermind, that's totally impractical and would never work. |
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04 July 2019, 04:34 | #203 |
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A little bit of "fast ram" would have suffice. Even faster "chip" would have done the job, but Aga. Some fixes on Copper and Blitter would have been like a candy! Come on, full 32bit 14mhz machine in the 1992 would have been not so expensive, and not so bad!
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04 July 2019, 07:24 | #204 |
Coder/webmaster/gamer
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@turrican3:
Sure, they could have had a bridgeboard-like hardware emulation, but that would have added massively to the cost of the machine, for something that would be of use only to certain users. As well as necessitating a different form factor of course. |
04 July 2019, 09:40 | #205 | |||||
Ex nihilo nihil
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*and as everyone knows that OS/2 was mainly developed by Microsoft at IBM's request, it means that Microsoft had access to the multi-tasking technology of the AmigaOS at that time... |
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04 July 2019, 12:52 | #206 | ||
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Your posts have been filled with misinformation and falsehoods. Now, I don't know why this is, so don't take this personally. Could be you really do believe all these things (for whatever reason). But that doesn't make them true in any way, nor does it really matter. What matters is that these systems are very old and a lot of factually incorrect information is spread about them already. As such it's useful to try and provide a more accurate representation of what happened. --- Note that this is not about the A1200 being perfect, it wasn't. There were compromises and some were not that great. The machine would've really benefited from a 1MB chip/1MB fast split (or alternatively having chip RAM run at CPU speed rather than half of it). But for me it was such a breath of fresh air. I liked my A500, but I loved my A1200. It was so much better in many ways - it had enough memory to actually use multitasking all the time, it had a much nicer UI and OS in general, it was nice and fast in comparison to the A500 and expanding it was so much easier and cheaper. Plus, it had easy to add hard disks - which was extremely nice. Now, AGA was a nice improvement that is IMHO underrated (getting 256 colours on screen was a big deal at the time - everybody kinda forgot about that), but the rest of the package is what made me love it. Moving to the PC after the A1200 sucked. It made me realise all the more just what had been lost with Commodore going bankrupt. Quote:
I don't remember his name of the top of my head, but I'm sure someone here knows. Edit: got it, it was written by William S. Hawes back in 1987 and had nothing to do with IBM. Commodore licensed it from him. Don't know what they actually traded with IBM. Last edited by roondar; 04 July 2019 at 13:06. Reason: AREXX author added. |
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04 July 2019, 14:07 | #207 |
Phone Homer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 5150
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I secretly work for Microsoft
The way you two put it Commodore couldn't have done anything else and we're already dead according to you two Commodore couldnt afford anything so that's that, Amiga was dead straight from the oracles posts. All I said was a bit more support for PC data types and now we're talking about software compatibility with PC? and 5.25" Disks Sorry I'll go back to using the best OS ever Workbench 1.3 and type all my messages with ED Last edited by Retro1234; 04 July 2019 at 14:17. |
04 July 2019, 14:34 | #209 |
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I would never argue that WB 1.3 sucked. I would still to this day, despite its shortcomings compared to modern OS's, say that 3.1 is the best operating system ever created.
Absolutely flies even on the slowest Amigas. Fits on 6 double density floppy disks and is probably even smaller than MS-DOS, despite having a fairly sophisticated GUI. Uses almost zero memory, fantastic multitasking capabilities, datatypes, commodities and other cool features, it's just an amazing piece of software. |
04 July 2019, 14:54 | #210 |
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These threads are like standing in the local market square next to a bench with a group of alcoholics who all have very strong opinions about what is wrong with the world, what the politicians should really be doing etc.. They never seem to realize that their discussion is going nowhere.
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04 July 2019, 15:41 | #211 | |
Natteravn
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During the 80s and 90s neither PCs were the the leading force in hardware nor Microsoft in software. There was absolutely nothing which I wished to have in my Amiga. There was some key software which made PCs suitable for the office, that's all. On the other hand, I didn't see a single PC in my University, when I left it 1995. We wrote our thesis with LaTeX. When I think about it, I am happy that the Amiga development stopped at some point and Commodore died. Imagine Amiga would have survived and transformed into another crappy PC. The Amiga community wouldn't even exist! |
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04 July 2019, 15:59 | #212 |
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While the Amiga had pre-emptive multitasking pretty much from the get-go in AmigaOS, Windows didn't get it until Win95. They didn't actually make it stable until the non-corporate versions of NT came out (Win2k, XP).
Win3.11 used cooperative multitasking. Rather than the OS putting the brakes on an application and allowing other apps to take control for a slice of time, Windows 3.11 relied on the applications gracefully allowing other apps to run. So if you had an application that sat there grinding away at some lengthy calculation or somesuch, other apps (including Windows itself) didn't get a look-in; a total freeze up of the system. If the application caused a segfault or an exception then you would never get your desktop back. Windows didn't catch up with Workbench/AmigaOS for more than a decade and even then it was bug-ridden right up beyond Windows ME. Whether or not there were better bundled apps (word, notepad et al) is a completely different matter and substantially nothing to do with the underlying operating system's quality or fitness for purpose. |
04 July 2019, 16:22 | #213 | |
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You could also run NT as a consumer if you wanted something stable with proper multitasking. Since it wasn't targeted consumers, using it for games was uphill, but NT 4.0 was a very nice OS otherwise. |
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04 July 2019, 17:49 | #214 |
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I think what killed off Commodore was they simply didn't have an answer for developers on the rife piracy that was going on, so when the SMS, SNES and Megadrive came along with their cartridge games it must have seemed like a nice clean slate for them as regarding piracy and money to be made so it's no wonder that developers went to those platforms. To copy the games of the consoles Mam's and Dad's had to fork out more money for hardware add-ons like the Super Magic card...but where I lived these things were not well known about.
A platform is only as good as the developers that are willing to support it. Along with that... a developer has to work much harder to get the same results out of an A1200 than they do to get the same results out of one of those consoles because they have so many of the components baked into the hardware for making 2D games, in the end... gamers compare the Amiga as a games console and don't take into account the other attributes that make the machine what it is. I wasn't disappointed when I got my A1200, I felt fortunate as in 1992/1993 I was earning £30 a week and still managed to afford it. They were great times. |
04 July 2019, 21:47 | #215 | |
Ex nihilo nihil
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04 July 2019, 21:52 | #216 | |
Banned
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On my Amiga, I recall constant crashes due to memory fragmentation, and when it wasn't crashing, I'd get out of memory errors due to the same issue even though the OS would report several megabytes of free RAM. It was free alright, just not in large enough contiguous chunks to start another app or to keep working the apps I'd already opened and was working in. This did not improve with later versions of the OS either because the kernel was essentially never improved upon. If AmigaOS was so great then someone needs to explain why it's been relegated to fanatical hobbyists as a play-toy rather than being used to run mission critical applications at the office and elsewhere. |
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04 July 2019, 22:16 | #217 | |
Amigan
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Quote:
http://www.polyphoto.com/upchug/AEcastro.html |
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04 July 2019, 23:40 | #218 |
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Age: 56
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One of those telemetry Amiga 2000's actually showed up on eBay last year with a certificate of authenticity from NASA. The price wanted for it was out of this world though.
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04 July 2019, 23:57 | #219 | |||||||
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All these fanciful scenarios such as "add full PC compatibility", "make it a 68030@50MHz with 4MB but keep it cheap", "use AAA/a much better chip set/add a DSP", "make it a pizza box with expansion slots", etc, etc, etc... They were simply not realistic. Commodore did not have AAA, the DSP integration on the A3000+ was never finished and no one would've bought the A1200 if it had been as powerful as some desired as the price would've gone way up. It's just a budget Amiga, there's only so much you could expect. And IMHO, what we got was pretty good. It was actually significantly more powerful than the A500/A500+/A600. But then, I'm the odd one out. I never felt AGA was all that bad. It was mostly just poorly utilised and didn't speak to the imagination of game developers as much as the easier to program for consoles (with their way lower piracy) did. Quote:
But whatever, I don't feel like repeating this argument. People can read for themselves. Quote:
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The only real problem with the OS is the lack of memory protection. And it is indeed a problem. But that doesn't change the fact that your list is not correct, three out of the five things you name are available on the current version. Quote:
As for badly behaving apps bringing down the entire OS... That was pretty much par for the course in 1992. Windows* at that time was actually worse as it could not just be brought down by running badly behaving apps, but also by merely running one of the 1000's of incompatible (but otherwise correctly behaving) DOS apps or opening 'too many' correctly behaving Windows apps at the same time. DOS wasn't any better, a bad app would bring the system down. Consumer Windows didn't (mostly) fix the issue around badly behaving apps bringing down the system until the release of Windows 2000. Note that Windows NT (which did also mostly fix this) was not yet available when the A1200 was released. Hardly a resounding win for Microsoft, then: their stuff was objectively worse in this regard at the time the A1200 launched. *) For clarity: Windows NT was not yet out at this time, so this is about Windows 3. Quote:
On the topic of kernal improvements: In Amiga OS 4.0+ the memory fragmentation problems have been fixed because they changed how the kernel allocates and deallocates memory completely and added support for both virtualized memory and memory paging. Quote:
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05 July 2019, 00:05 | #220 |
Vodka monster.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 337
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Amiga was a great machine. Its demise was all the custom hardware was hard soldered onto the board unlike today's PC's where you can just upgrade your video hardware by slotting in a graphics card.
Another downfall; no memory protection meaning chances of crashes when a program writes to memory it writes over something else. One thing they did get right was the zorro 2 / 3 autoconfig standards designed by David Haynie. It thanks to this why PC's back then had ISA standard that we see to this day in PCI express. |
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