Getting an A600, Have Questions

[Tempest 2084]

So I'm getting back into the Amiga scene after downsizing my collection a few years back. A friend of mine is selling me his recapped A600 with an ACA630 accelerator, 32B SDD with WHDLoad, and tank mouse for $450USD but I think I can talk him down to $400. I think this is a good deal and it's in really nice shape. I guess the PiStorm has replaced a lot of accelerators, but from what I can tell the ACA630 was a really nice one when it was released (this is the 25Mhz 32MB model).


One thing I didn't think about until recently is that I'm going to have to figure out a monitor solution. Before I always had big box Amigas with scanline doublers so I'm not sure what the best solution is for a compact Amiga like the 600. I have a few monitors that might work:


1. Dell 2001FP - This was my main monitor on my PC until I upgraded about 8 years ago. Amazingly I've found out that early versions can sync down to 15Hz and work whit an Amiga (mine is October 2004 so it should work). Other than needing an Amiga to VGA adapter, is there any downsides to using an old LCD monitor like this? Will I get jailbars? Will the refresh rate be too low for fast paced games? I've read that the interlaced modes flicker pretty badly when using the VGA port. Someone suggested using the S-Video port instead.

2. I have an Amiga 1080 that I use with my C128, although I'd need to get the proper cable to hook it up to the 600. Only downside I can see (other than needing to find another monitor for my C128) is that it's a lot smaller than the 2001FP. Of course it's a proper CRT monitor which is always nice.

3. I have several CRT VGA monitors, but I'd need a scanline doubler to hook them up to the A600. What are some good ones to use for this? Any downsides?


I plan on getting a 1MB Chip RAM upgrade which should pretty much max out the system at 32MB Fast RAM and 2MB Chip Ram with an 030. I only plan on playing games on it so other than maybe investing in a PiStorm for RTG capability (or HDMI) I can't see what else I'd need. I know there's a board that can add AGA graphics but those are way too expensive.

[donnie]

Since you probably are american, getting pal to work is probably the biggest difficulty. It must be really challenging to find crt monitors that can display pal? Does american pvm models accept pal? Most american tv dont even have rgb.

I dont know for sure.

But i think retrotink4k can transform pal signal to vrr.

It also has exellent crt simulation. Then use a good modern oled screen atleast.

[Tempest 2084]

Originally Posted by donnie

Since you probably are american, getting pal to work is probably the biggest difficulty. It must be really challenging to find crt monitors that can display pal? Does american pvm models accept pal? Most american tv dont even have rgb.

I have a few PVMs that will take PAL and RGB signals, but I'm using them for other things at the moment (my entire classic console setup is plugged into a PVM 20M4U for example). I do have some PVMs that take composite and s-video and I think do PAL, but not RGB. I really need to get one RGB modded...


Actually not that I think about it, I have a JVC TM-H1750C which does both RGB and PAL modes. Maybe that would be the best way to go? Then again, won't most PAL games run too fast even if they display properly on the screen or can WHDLoad fix some of that?

[donnie]

Pvm is the best solution for amiga gaming.

[ant512]

I use a PAL A600 in the US. I pass the 600’s RGB output into the SCART socket of an OSSC, and from that into a normal HDMI monitor.

There’s an RGB2HDMI upgrade for the 600 that clips onto the graphics chip and gives you perfect HDMI output. I’ve got one in an A500 and it is excellent. I haven’t tried the A600 version; I’ve heard that the method for attaching it to the graphics chip is fragile and temperamental (I’ve found the same to be true of the Indivision in my 1200 that attaches in the same way). The OSSC is good enough.

There’s no such thing as an AGA upgrade for a non-AGA Amiga.

The PiStorm is an incredible upgrade. It would replace your accelerator, hard disk and ROM chips, and give you RTG and WiFi. Probably overkill if you just want to play games. If you didn’t have an accelerator I’d recommend it as an essential purchase, but you’ve already got something that works.

I’d recommend getting a PCMCIA CompactFlash adaptor so that you can easily transfer files between your modern PC and the 600.

[Tempest 2084]

Originally Posted by ant512

There’s no such thing as an AGA upgrade for a non-AGA Amiga.

I didn't think so either, but there's this:


http://www.apollo-computer.com/manticorev4.php

[aeberbach]

If you can get the cable then use the 1080 - seems this would be by far your best option. What a great monitor to own!

Yes, for A600 rgb2hdmi would be my first choice if I had no monitor. I think the attachment method is not bad. It does rely on an upside-down socket but also fastens with two bolts (through the HD sled foot holes) so it doesn’t just pop off like a Furia might.

Second choice is one of the modern LCDs that display Amiga modes like the Philips 221S9A (unsure whether this is available in your area but it is current, bought one a month ago). I have a Lenovo that works too.

Third choice would be a scan converter, retrotink, gbs, ossc etc. gbscontrol gives good bang for buck if you can do the mods yourself.

Fourth choice, treat yourself to a CRT! Original Amiga monitor, NEC Multisync, PVM. (Hope you’re rich)

You probably will see the jailbars unless you get a buffered interface converting Amiga 23-pin video to HD15 VGA. See https://www.amibay.com/threads/amiga...hable.2445149/

[alexh]

Indivision ECS
RGB2HDMI
Framethrower (+Pistorm16)

[LordCrass]

I think as long as you're using RGB, the 1080 can do NTSC or PAL refresh rates and resolutions. I had a 1084S back in the day with my NTSC Amiga and it had no problems with PAL display modes, other than being noticeably flickery due to lower refresh rate.

For just playing games, don't bother with a Pistorm, you'll actually reduce your compatibility. If you want RTG, insanely fast CPU, more RAM than you'll ever use, wifi, and HDD, then it's an amazing add-on.

If you want to use a VGA or LCD monitor, as aeberbach mentions, the RGBtoHDMI and GBS-C are two of the best value scalers available for the Amiga. Handles de-interlacing nicely and are quite cheap. RGBtoHDMI is an internal solution and GBS-C is external.

[Tempest 2084]

I have a 17" JVC that does RGB and PAL/NTSC modes so I'm going to try that first. Otherwise I'll bite the bullet and get an Indivision ECS (although those are pricey). I do have a GBS board that I could try upgrade to a GBS-C and plenty of VGA monitors. I assume the Indivision ECS works better than both the GBS-C and RGBtoHDMI?

Originally Posted by LordCrass

For just playing games, don't bother with a Pistorm, you'll actually reduce your compatibility. If you want RTG, insanely fast CPU, more RAM than you'll ever use, wifi, and HDD, then it's an amazing add-on..

Oh? Does the PiStorm have compatibility issues?

[alexh]

Originally Posted by Tempest 2084

IOh? Does the PiStorm have compatibility issues?

The same as any other accelerated Amiga without an MMU.

With the new Pistorm WHDload wrapper compatibility is really good (at least on A1200 + Pistorm32 lite)

[aeberbach]

Originally Posted by Tempest 2084

I have a 17" JVC that does RGB and PAL/NTSC modes so I'm going to try that first. Otherwise I'll bite the bullet and get an Indivision ECS (although those are pricey). I do have a GBS board that I could try upgrade to a GBS-C and plenty of VGA monitors. I assume the Indivision ECS works better than both the GBS-C and RGBtoHDMI?

Oh? Does the PiStorm have compatibility issues?

PiStorm doesn't have a lot of compatability issues when you run Emu68, it just functions as an extremely fast 68k with all the rest of the system untouched. There are specific WHDLoad tweaks to make almost everything work. If using RTG and a game wants a normal Amiga mode you need a monitor on the 23-pin connector or you see nothing. Most people use two monitors (or switch inputs). The Framethrower (when finished and available) will pipe the Amiga video back in through the Raspberry Pi camera input and then Amiga video will display full-screen or windowed on the HDMI output.

I had an Indivision, I didn't love it, I would call it competent but quirky. You need to invest a fair bit of time getting it set up and then you do get a very nice workbench. But I think PiStorm (RTG) is a better option if you want text modes and large workbench while GBS-C/RGB2HDMI is less trouble playing games. Indivision was a great option when those two options were not so readily available. Just my opinion.

[Tempest 2084]

Originally Posted by aeberbach

I had an Indivision, I didn't love it, I would call it competent but quirky. You need to invest a fair bit of time getting it set up and then you do get a very nice workbench. But I think PiStorm (RTG) is a better option if you want text modes and large workbench while GBS-C/RGB2HDMI is less trouble playing games. Indivision was a great option when those two options were not so readily available. Just my opinion.

My main complaint with the Indivision is the cost. Once you add the required trap door RAM upgrade (which I will admit I do need) you're at almost 200 pounds + shipping. If my JVC doesn't work for me I'll have to look into the GBS-C update.

[FOL]

Originally Posted by alexh

The same as any other accelerated Amiga without an MMU.

With the new Pistorm WHDload wrapper compatibility is really good (at least on A1200 + Pistorm32 lite)

I seconded this. With WHDLoad wrapper, every WHDLoad game I had issues with, just work.


Plus you get added bonus of Fast RAM, RTG GFX, Wifi and Fast SD HDD.

[Tempest 2084]

Originally Posted by FOL

I seconded this. With WHDLoad wrapper, every WHDLoad game I had issues with, just work.


Plus you get added bonus of Fast RAM, RTG GFX, Wifi and Fast SD HDD.

Yeah I'm considering it. My system comes with an ACA630 already though so I'm going to see if I can get by using just that. Otherwise when the RGB to HDMI mod finally comes out for the PiStorm I might go for it.

[SkulleateR]

Originally Posted by Tempest 2084

Otherwise when the RGB to HDMI mod finally comes out for the PiStorm I might go for it.

AFAIK that will be for the PiStorm32 (A1200) only ... you can already get RGB2HDMI for the A600 -> https://amigastore.eu/974-rgb2hdmi-amiga-600-ffc.html

[Tempest 2084]

Originally Posted by SkulleateR

AFAIK that will be for the PiStorm32 (A1200) only ... you can already get RGB2HDMI for the A600 -> https://amigastore.eu/974-rgb2hdmi-amiga-600-ffc.html

Wow. Can this be installed at the same time as the ACA630?

EDIT: Says right here it can: Note: the RGB2HDMI converter is compatible with any Chip memory expansion as our Amiga 600 expansion, Fast RAM expansion, PiStorm A600, and other accelerators and expansions (Furia, ACA, Indivision, etc).

Are there any issues with this? Any downsides I should know about? Limitations?

[LordCrass]

I have an Indivision ECS v1 that I replaced with an RGBtoHDMI. Much easier to use, no fussing around setting video timings etc. The newer Indivision ECS models (v2+) aren't limited to integer-scaling like the v1 is, so they're more flexible with getting an image size you'd like. They're still limited to VGA output though, only the AGA version will output a digital signal, so the picture isn't as clear as an HDMI output.

I was also never able to get it to output a vertical refresh rate that exactly matched the Amiga's. Best I could get was to have a single frame stutter every 7 seconds or so. Using the frame-lock mode never worked with my monitors, it would just result in an inability to sync. RGBtoHDMI doesn't have that problem for me, perfectly smooth.

The only limitations I've found with RGBtoHDMI are:

1. Switching between interlaced/non-interlaced screens will cause the monitor to resync, but this is rarely a problem.
2. The only option you get for any sort of CRT emulation is scanlines. No shadow/slot mask feature (yet).

[Tempest 2084]

I prefer to use CRTs when possible because LCDs just don't look right for 16/32 bit games in my opinion. It's an option though and one I might eventually do. At the moment I think my best bet is to try using my 17" JVC which does PAL/NTSC and RGB and has a rather high TVL count (600 or 700 I think). If that doesn't work I might try a VGA adapter and use one of the VGA monitors I have laying around here. Failing that then I might try this as I do have a spare HDMI monitor.

It would be kind of expensive and silly, but I wonder if the RGB2HDMI could be used with an HDMI to VGA adapter? I can't see why not and it would give me a backup option if I really wanted that CRT look.