When you first bought an Amiga, what games were you looking to play?

[d4rk3lf]

Originally Posted by Lilura

I'm big on computer games that educate, not just entertain. Games like Civilization and Frontier are the Kings in my estimation. I can't think of any games that sparked my imagination more than them. Frontier especially, because it is also technically supreme, hiercarchically designed and evokes the galactic scope of Asimov's Foundation.

Yeah, but what's with this David Braben's lack of any campaign moments in his game (even in new Elite)?
Is he so much deep in the programmer side (of the moon), that he lacks any (storytelling) creativity?
Frontier is not even full disk on Amiga (I think it's only like 300-350kb), and he, and his team could easily create campaign of 15-20 missions.. they could be just like combination of regular (bulleting board) missions, just connected, with some twists... mission briefings could be just plain text... and that way all players would feel so much more immersive to the world... and it would take... maybe 10-15 kb more (even that might be too much).

You mention Civilization.
That game have very clear goals.
Survive, or beat everyone, or build Un, or build a spaceship.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

Yeah, but what's with this David Braben's lack of any campaign moments in his game (even in new Elite)?

Wait, do you mean that different people look for different things in games and that some might consider Elite a technical brilliant snore-fest? Interesting

[Lilura]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

Yeah, but what's with this David Braben's lack of any campaign moments in his game (even in new Elite)?
Is he so much deep in the programmer side (of the moon), that he lacks any (storytelling) creativity?
Frontier is not even full disk on Amiga (I think it's only like 300-350kb), and he, and his team could easily create campaign of 15-20 missions.. they could be just like combination of regular (bulleting board) missions, just connected, with some twists... mission briefings could be just plain text... and that way all players would feel so much more immersive to the world... and it would take... maybe 10-15 kb more (even that might be too much).

Yeah, I said in my WC criticism that if Frontier had scribbled in a story and added a few characters, it would have had more success with the masses.

But in space-traders and space combat flight sims, I prefer open-ended and non-linear to story-driven. That way, I can write my own campaign.

You mention Civilization.
That game have very clear goals.
Survive, or beat everyone, or build Un, or build a spaceship.

Different genre, different game. And there are more ways to play Civ due to its vast array of units, advances, wonders, terrain tiles and city improvements.

And most veterans of Civ games don't want their campaign to end... but of course, Civ is subject to the harsh taskmaster known as Time, whereas Frontier is not. In Civ you've got global warming, a space race and looming nuclear warfare.

[d4rk3lf]

Originally Posted by TCD

Wait, do you mean that different people look for different things in games and that some might consider Elite a technical brilliant snore-fest? Interesting

Please translate me this.
I am just a drunk Balkan guy posting here.
"different people that finds different things in different games like Elite, that is snore fest"?
wtf?
You vastly overestimated my intelligence.
I can't figure this out.

Originally Posted by Lilura

Yeah, I said in my WC criticism that if Frontier had scribbled in a story and added a few characters, it would have had more success with the masses.

Yeah, but of course.
I wasn't so much replying (in terms of opposing) what you said, but more of stating what I feel about these games.
Your reply was perfect, and I think I understand why you dislike these games, and I have no objections to any of your statements bro.
You're cool man in my eyes.
Cheers.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

I can't figure this out.

If you like a game that's cool. If I don't like that game that's cool. We can like different things.

[Megalomaniac]

We've all got different preferences as to what our dream game would look like. We all place different levels of importance on whether there's a story, and whether we prefer realistic or surreal or pure fantasy. A game that's not designed to fit our exact preferences isn't necessarily a bad game, and we shouldn't mock people for liking it - but, equally, we're entitled to explain why we don't like it, and why we prefer a different game, or how we would have altered a game.

Taking it back to the original theme - maybe people overestimated what the 68000 and Blitter / Copper was capable of for sprite-based racing games? If we bought an Amiga expecting a perfect 50FPS Out Run, let alone something like Power Drift, we will have been disappointed several times. Speaking as someone who got lots of fun from Amiga racers here. Lotus 2 is probably the fastest and smoothest full-screen racing game on the A500-level Amiga - Lotus 1 is slightly faster (but still only 25FPS I think) but using only half the screen (not that it really bothered me once I was focused into the action - if you look closely at Lotus 2 the top half the screen is all horizon). The ST version does indeed lack the dotted lines, I'm not sure how much that would bother you in the heat of the racing, except for the "his computer is better than mine" feeling (nowadays there's an unofficial STe port which adds the dotted lines back in).

Sprite-scaling '2.5D' racing games weren't a natural strength for the C64, but until quite late in its life something as technically puny as the first Pitstop was among the best, and WEC Le Mans wasn't the only game that was totally outdone by the Spectrum and Amstrad versions. Then again, things like Turbo Out Run, Buggy Boy and Turbo Charge later showed what could be done if the right sacrifices were made

Can even a top-end 1990 PC (486DX-33 with 4Mb memory - and we'd be talking £5000 for a complete system with that spec) really do 3D racing at 30FPS in 640x480 SVGA? Eight times the data of an A500 screen with five times the clock speed (and no special hardware to help)?

[SiDeSaLaD]

Early attention grabbers for me.....

XR35 Anco Software

Firepower MicroIllusions (I can still here the squish when you run down a soldier)

Ultima III Origin Systems

Carrier Command Rainbird

Sentinel Rainbird (CBM64 version got me hooked)

[XPD]

Pirates. Played on friends C64 and loved it. Then got to play Amiga version.
Closely followed by DOTC, Populous 2 and F18

[CCCP alert]

Although they were never released for the Amiga I bought an Amiga in 87 hoping one day to be playing Nemesis and Salamander on it as I knew the hardware specs were high enough to do them justice (as Tinyus proved decades later).

[Lilura]

Early days yet, but only two games so far have received more than one specific on-topic mention:

Defender of the Crown 1986 (5 independent mentions)
Marble Madness 1986 (4 independent mentions)

Still, it's nice to see early Amiga games getting mentioned.

Here are the others:

Pinball Fantasies
Lotus II
Robocod
Dragon's Lair
Sensible Soccer
K240
Sid Meier's Civilization 1991
Budokan
Hack
Bard's Tale
The Pawn 1986
Guild of Thieves
Barbarian
Terrorpods
Obliterator
F/A-18 Interceptor 1988
Microcosm
Liberation
Tower Assault
Fire Power 1987
Wec Le Mans 1988 (Amiga version did not end up eventuating)
Gradius / Nemesis (no heyday Amiga version)
Salamander (no heyday Amiga version)
XR35 Anco Software
Firepower MicroIllusions
Ultima III Origin Systems
Carrier Command Rainbird
Sentinel Rainbird
Sid Meier's Pirates

[dirkies]

I also remember I absolutely wanted to play Gee Bee Air Rally, Dark Castle and Joe Blade, all due to the screenshots in review magazines. Marble Madness, Arkanoid, Barbarian, and DOTC I already witnessed in my local computer club, so I had seen those in "action" myself already. Eager to play them aswell of course, but it was fun to "discover" the ones for real which I only saw on paper before.
And then there were the discoveries hardly mentioned in magazines, like Sidewinder which was back then a very decent 1988 shmup that was released in the same summer as I got my A500.

[Lilura]

Back in the early days I was looking for shoot 'em ups and Gauntlet-likes as well. Quick off-hand list:

Plutos 1987
Typhoon 1987
Insanity Fight 1987
Garrison 1987
Goldrunner 1987
Starglider 1987
Virus 1988
Pursuit to Earth 1988
Flying Shark 1988
StarRay 1988
Eliminator 1988
Starglider 2 1988
Sidewinder 1988
Thunder Blade 1988
Xenon 1988
Hybris 1988
Menace 1988

Might as well put that side-by-side with C64 shooters available at the time (only the really good ones):

Paradroid 1985
Crazy Comets 1985
Gyruss 1986
Iridis Alpha 1986
Sanxion 1986
Uridium 1986
Alleykat 1986
Terra Cresta 1986
Delta 1987
Hunter's Moon 1987
Gradius 1987
Light Force 1987
Bulldog 1987
Slap Fight 1987
Mega-Apocalypse 1987
Hades Nebula 1987
Task 3 1987
Salamander 1988
IO: Into Oblivion 1988
Armalyte 1988
Zamzara 1988

[dirkies]

Originally Posted by Lilura

Back in the early days I was looking for shoot 'em ups and Gauntlet-likes as well. Quick off-hand list:

Plutos 1987
Typhoon 1987
Insanity Fight 1987
Garrison 1987
Goldrunner 1987
Starglider 1987
Virus 1988
Pursuit to Earth 1988
Flying Shark 1988
StarRay 1988
Eliminator 1988
Starglider 2 1988
Sidewinder 1988
Thunder Blade 1988
Xenon 1988
Hybris 1988
Menace 1988

Might as well put that side-by-side with C64 shooters available at the time (only the really good ones):

Paradroid 1985
Crazy Comets 1985
Gyruss 1986
Iridis Alpha 1986
Sanxion 1986
Uridium 1986
Alleykat 1986
Terra Cresta 1986
Delta 1987
Hunter's Moon 1987
Gradius 1987
Light Force 1987
Bulldog 1987
Slap Fight 1987
Mega-Apocalypse 1987
Hades Nebula 1987
Task 3 1987
Salamander 1988
IO: Into Oblivion 1988
Armalyte 1988
Zamzara 1988

ahh, good memories

[zipper]

Got A500 1991 - the School bundle did contain Ports of Call (+Carmen) - it was frustrating to steer the ships until I learned how to do it without crashing.

[NorthWay]

I totally forgot one of the other big names that I wanted for the Amiga: Arkanoid!
It looked so fantastic in the pictures, and it actually lived up to the hype, even sonically.

Arkanoid clones were plentiful AFAIR. Most of them looked good and had a plethora of sampled sounds to make sure they were different from 8-bit machines.

[Megalomaniac]

Of those Amiga shooters, Virus is definitely something new style-wise, the Stargliders were something the C64 couldn't really do (thought the Z80s could). Firepower / Fire Power (mentioned twice so far) is another shooter with something slightly new, a mediocre C64 version the only 8-bit release, Eliminator also a very new style but does have decent 8-bit versions. Otherwise, Hybris is probably the only one that really beats similar C64 shooters of the day, though I'm fond of Plutos, and StarRay is pretty neat.

Not only was Arkanoid itself a rare coin-op conversion developed purely around the Amiga in the 80s, it produced a lot of clones and variants that were pure Amiga originals - Amegas, Giganoid and Crystal Hammer on the commercial side, the Megaballs and Poings as later PD stuff. No scrolling by nature, but still a good showcase for the Amiga's abilities.

[gimbal]

Originally Posted by dirkies

I also remember I absolutely wanted to play Gee Bee Air Rally, Dark Castle and Joe Blade, all due to the screenshots in review magazines.

Yeah magazines and especially coverdisks were like a worm to a fish I got Gremlins 2 because on the page it looked really cool. I got Wrath of the Demon because we (the entire family) were mesmerized by the demo coverdisk. Two games I did not enjoy the gameplay of at all to be honest.

Wrath was weird, it felt tonally very different from the demo even though the demo had shortened versions of sequences in the game, slightly out of order. The demo was easier, maybe that made it more palatable. Or maybe its because you finish the demo in 10 minutes and that's about as much time as you should play that game in one sitting