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#41 | |
HOL/FTP busy bee
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Germany
Age: 46
Posts: 32,485
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#42 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: boston
Posts: 39
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On that note I checked out the 2024 Revision Demoparty which was mentioned by one of the responders. There was a lot of neat 3D/rotozoom stuff in there (the bitmap textured tunnel demo was cool... could that have been used for parts of the tunnel sequence in Stardust on OCS?). However, "Attack of the Ego Bots" was really puzzling (at least for me). Ignoring all the controversies regarding the use of AI to generate the images for now, at first, I thought it was a bunch of HAM6 or HAM8 pictures. However, it turned out it was some sort of extreme Copper augmentation on Hi-res mode. I think someone from the team that created Hologon came up with this concept or was behind the coding used in the demo. How was that done I wonder? Is this what they call dynamic high-res? Nonetheless, I guess it goes to show that not every Amiga intro screen/ slide show that has 500+ colors need to use HAM! [ Show youtube player ] While the author said that this technique hogs up most of the DMA cycles so it's clearly not practical for games that requires a lot of computation, it makes me wonder if point and click adventure games that relies on still image and may be a couple of sprites could have used this technique. I could be wrong, but I suspect that the game Universe use similar technique (EHB mode and change first 15 colors every scanline), but it was low-res and had far fewer colors so didn't look anywhere as good. I suppose the issue would be how many of these hi-res still images you can squeeze onto a disk - I think the demo only managed to display12 images and that used up an entire disk so you'd probably need a dozen disks to make a decent adventure game. [ Show youtube player ] Anyway, a lot of really cool stuff, and I hope somehow these demoscenes techniques/sorcery - regardless of whether it's considered 'cheating' or not - find its way into next gen Amiga OCS games. Last edited by carlosgod; 04 August 2024 at 15:44. |
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#43 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Scunthorpe/United Kingdom
Posts: 2,166
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#44 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: boston
Posts: 39
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#45 |
Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Eksjö / Sweden
Posts: 5,755
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I meant to do what I did and "share all the info and /unsub thread" but forgot to. Didn't notice your post and now it looks quite funny to see my post as almost a direct response to yours
![]() Short-hand term for the opposite of effects. Equivalent to cutscenes in games, authors can reap the benefits of a different language or platform to generate and use the computer for playback, as opposed to developing new software running on it. Datalump detection:
Like animations, demos can be scripted and still real-time, for presentation and sync/timing reasons (e.g. first run of Hologon, some observations on second run). The same applies to capping framerate (effects don't run faster despite accelerator). "So how can ppl tell?" - well, the few datalumps groups rely on you going gaga wow (as opposed to being offended by the BS!). This BS has been supremely successful by a factor of 20:1 or more over 35 years. And remember that these guys could have gotten the same praise (for waah, design, waah, music) if they slowed down the fake to realistic levels. Or could they? I'm sure they couldn't, actually. They had to cheat to win. (In fact, some winners had inferior music and design.) Anyway. You didn't compare Zeewolf to that. /End explanation of datalump. ![]() ~ A comparison to Hologon is an apples to pears comparison: Zeewolf is a straight real-time world simulation, Hologon is a major release with many different effects (all but a few 3D, very limited worlds, few of which could be made into game worlds keeping performance), with a careful observation of close-to-bandwidth and tuning to presentation, whereas Zeewolf doesn't really care about FPS. Both work fairly well as benchmarks: Zeewolf for CPU only, Hologon requires only a modest CPU and quick Chipmem access but tests every part. ![]() |
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#46 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: boston
Posts: 39
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Okay so I guess an extreme example of this kind of behavior would be a demo that is showing a spinning bitmap textured Hexagon at 50FPS but in reality, it is an MPEG video of a spinning hexagon running off DirectX on a PC, and the author claim that its runs in the Amiga in real time! I didn't realize there were things like this in the Demoscene, though i guess anything is possible. I am assuming though that there is a lot of grey area when it comes to what is 'datalump' or 'cheating'. So now that I know this, I'll try not get overly excited whenever I see an amazing demo and use more discretion. But going back to Zeewolf, what is your view on whether it could be optimized to run faster? Is it possible for a demoscene developer today working with a team of game devs to do an OCS Zeewolf / Zeewolf2 remake that runs at 10-15 FPS? Perhaps not the best comparison but similar to how Grind runs at that frame rate by using some sort of super optimized blitter C2P. Last edited by carlosgod; Yesterday at 15:26. |
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#47 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Denmark
Posts: 1,293
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Without having run the numbers it seems like that should be possible. Would certainly be interesting to see a "tech demo" of something like that. AFAIK that kind of engine isn't something people have recently been trying to optimize/make, but could be wrong. FWIW the code didn't seem bad overall, and what I did for the optimized slave was "just" to make more proper use of fast mem. |
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