Denise C64 mode problems!

[amilo3438]

Decided to stop testing the existing g64 collection from 2015! The reason for this is the frequent finding of something that looks like it works but is actually problematic.

As a last example: "pacmania[grandslam_1988]"... it will start and then after a while in the game the emulator will go crazy!? And the first thing is that something is wrong with the emulator, but in fact the problem is in the tested file!
(If I convert nbz from that file with e.g. -an -C -r -f options, I will get something that does not cause problems.)

So, now there remains the possibility of creating instead of looking for problems, and that in a way.... i.e. generating a new g64 from nbz using the latest version of nibconv and testing them in denise with checking problematic ones (ie those that doesn't seem to work) in vice.

-------------------

Well, this is my last test where I converted the contents of the Cyan folder (without alt versions) from the group of nbz files and tested them in denise and then in vice.

In doing so, I created a batch file to make the job easier:

for %%f in (*.nbz) do (
  nibconv %%f "%%~nf.g64"
  del %%f
)

So, that was about 90 files to test. Of those, I got 64 that work in denise (default), and those 26 that didn't work, I checked in vice3.8(x64sc) and found another 11 files that worked! I then checked those same 11 again in denise but now with new settings in disk wobble, and here are the results...

Below didn't work in denise with default disk wobble 0.5 rpm but worked fine in vice(x64sc)!

Then tested again in denise but with adjusted disk wobble to work! (wobble 0.5 rpm +- ~0.1 rpm)
------------------------------------------------------------------
bionic_commando[capcom_1988](pal)(!) .................. 0.6 rpm
black_tiger[us_gold_1989](pal)(!)...................... 0.4 rpm
crack_down[us_gold_1990](pal)(!)....................... 0.4 or 0.6 rpm
dynamite_dux_s1[activision_1988](pal).................. 0.4 rpm
forgotten_worlds_s1[us_gold_1989](pal)(!) ............. 0.6 rpm
indiana_jones_temple_of_doom[us_gold_1988](pal)........ 0.6 rpm ?(very close but not start)?
mega-apocalypse[martech_1987](cyan2)(pal).............. 0.7 rpm
metro_cross[us_gold_1987](pal)......................... 0.4 rpm
out_run_s1[us_gold_1988](pal)(!)....................... 0.4 or 0.6 rpm
rolling_thunder[tengen_1989](pal)(cyan2)............... 0.6 rpm
trantor[probe_1987](pal)..............................  0.4 rpm
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--> 11 more working in vice(x64sc) and in denise but only with adjusted disk wobble

EDIT: Even micro64 had no problem running all 11 listed, while hoxs64 managed to run only the first one! (Note: 0/11 as for denise with default disk drive 1541-II ... and if it were 1541 disk drive then the ratio is 5/11 for denise!)

Is it normal that a difference of +-0.1 rpm in disk wobble can have such an impact on whether something works or not in denise!?

Emu compatibility after the test:
-----------------------------------
64/90 -> ~71% denise (default disk wobble 0.5 rpm and 1541-II disk drive)
69/90 -> ~77% denise (default disk wobble 0.5 rpm but 1541 disk drive)
75/90 -> ~83% vice3.8(x64sc)
-----------------------------------

And the rest that didn't work probably require a new conversion with some of the options turned on! (to be tested later)


EDIT: And the following 15 did not work in denise or vice! The nibconv (even with options) did not helped so it was necessary to process them with remaster-utility!

armageddon_man[martech_1987](cyan2)(pal)
avenger[gremlin_1986](cyan1)(pal)
deceptor[us_gold_1986](pal)
gauntlet_ii[us_gold_1987](pal)(!)
highway_encounter[vortex_1985](pal)(!)
indiana_jones_last_crusade[lucasfilm_1989](pal)(!)
italy_1990[us_gold_1990](pal)
jack_the_nipper[gremlin_1986](cyan1)(pal)
last_mission[data_east_1986](cyan2)(pal)
muncher_eats_chewits[gremlin_1988](pal)(!)
out_run_europa_s1[us_gold_1992](pal)(!)
rainbow_warrior_s1[micro_style_1989](pal)
shadow_dancer_s1[us_gold_1991](pal)(cyan2)(bad)
supersports_s1[gremlin_1988](pal)
zyron[kingsoft_1986](pal)

Some were recognized by the utility itself as problematic, while for some others it was necessary to turn on patching manually!

P.S.
It seems that denise is only "sensitive" when it comes to nibconv created g64 files. With the remaster-utility created g64 files, denise is not at all sensitive to rotation speed and disk wobble settings!? (then what's the problem?)
After all, I believe that there is nothing more to test or compare! So that would probably be it, as far as this testing is concerned!

[amilo3438]

One note about...

shadow_dancer_s1[us_gold_1991](pal)(cyan2)(bad) ... tested to work in denise after nibconv -aa -r -f nbz g64!
shadow_dancer_s1[us_gold_1991](pal)(cyan2)(alt)(bad) ... tested to work in denise after nibconv -r -f nbz g64!

It may take a few tries to get it to run as it sometimes stops at track 19! (it's best to make save state at the title screen and then try from there)
It seems that in vice does not want to start! (always stops at track 19)


---------------------------------
An addition to the test from the previous post...

For this test was used other batch file and then they were all tested to find which one of previously problematic works with 0.5 rpm wobble!

for %%f in (*.nbz) do (
  nibconv -aw %%f "%%~nf(-aw).g64"
  nibconv -ag %%f "%%~nf(-ag).g64"
  nibconv -a0 %%f "%%~nf(-a0).g64"
  nibconv -as %%f "%%~nf(-as).g64"
  nibconv -aa %%f "%%~nf(-aa).g64"
  nibconv -an %%f "%%~nf(-an).g64"
)

Previously 11 problematic files in denise now works fine with disk wobble 0.5 rpm if other alignment was used than default:

Now works with denise disk wobble 0.5 rpm if converted with other alignment!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
bionic_commando[capcom_1988](pal)(!) .................. -an, -as, -aw
black_tiger[us_gold_1989](pal)(!)...................... -a0, -aa, -an, -aw 
crack_down[us_gold_1990](pal)(!)....................... -a0, -an
dynamite_dux_s1[activision_1988](pal).................. -a0, -as, -aw
forgotten_worlds_s1[us_gold_1989](pal)(!).............. -aw, -ag -r -f
indiana_jones_temple_of_doom[us_gold_1988](pal)........ -as
mega-apocalypse[martech_1987](cyan2)(pal).............. -a0, -as
metro_cross[us_gold_1987](pal)......................... -aa
out_run_s1[us_gold_1988](pal)(!)....................... -an
rolling_thunder[tengen_1989](pal)(cyan2)............... -aa -r -f
trantor[probe_1987](pal)..............................  -a0
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note: Some of above needed also additional options to work! (-r -f)

Seems -ag is default when no options is used in nibconv! (as was in previous post)

EDIT: Checked above 21 test also in vice3.8(x64sc) and only rolling thunder didn't work, but worked in micro64! (hoxs64 fails to work in almost all)
A more detailed test would require checking all 11x6 combinations, actually 11x5, because we know from the previous test that vice had no problems with -ag, i.e. the default setting.

From the nibtools_readme.txt:

-aw: Align all tracks to the longest run of unformatted data.
-ag: Align all tracks to the longest gap between sectors.
-a0: Align all tracks to sector 0.
-as: Align all tracks to the longest sync mark.
-aa: Align all tracks to the longest run of any one byte (autogap).
-an: Align all tracks to the raw data as found (not normally used).

I know it might be interesting to see how other emulators would react to the new alignment change, like vice, but that would require a bit too much work and time.

The conclusion of this test might be that you don't need to change anything in the emulator, but you need to choose the right option when converting, so then there won't be any problems!