19 February 2024, 12:44 | #1321 | |||
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It not only looks spectacular, it plays spectacular. One of the best Amiga exclusive platformer, if not the best, for sure. I always say: "Even arcade machines with much powerful hardware, would be proud with title like Ruff 'n' Tumble". Quote:
Screw the overrated parallax. Back in the day, as a kid watching arcade games, I haven't even noticed it. Quote:
Yup, conversion to more colors with Ruff 'n' Tumble probably wouldn't result in much better look. The palette is so nice, and so well drawn, that it already looks like it's using much more colors then actually is. |
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19 February 2024, 13:24 | #1322 |
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Ruff 'n Tumble is a good game, but its hardly silky smooth.
It's only 25 fps to begin with, but it also drops frames and has regular slowdown. Its a bit of a shame it doesn't run better. The lack of fluidity and/or consistency hold it in the realm of good. If it was smoother and more consistently paced it'd be an absolute classic. |
19 February 2024, 13:42 | #1323 | |
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i love the robin levy graphic, if you watch on his work he never lost a shot one of the commodore amiga problem was the commodore Last edited by Luca underdog; 19 February 2024 at 13:48. |
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19 February 2024, 15:45 | #1324 |
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Hmm? Isn't Adventure, Novel, Strategy and (2D) Sim games an area where the Amiga still had a chance to shine? Pretty, slow updating games controlled by mouse and keyboard. I think platform and fighting games is where it fell behind consoles a lot due to the lack of layered tile systems, individual palettes and a good joypad. Additionally, while many early PC 3D games have aged poorly I remember them being novel and interesting at the time, and a big incentive to jump ship. I don't remember seeing any PC platforming games then and wasn't even aware of Jill of the Jungle, Commander Keen, etc. I probably had Amiga-branded blinkers on.
I've said it elsewhere, but I think software > hardware. Pokémon took like 6 years to make. It still managed to pump a lot of vitality into the elderly Gameboy. A real "Killer App". It really did require a lot of development time too, so it's not really a game you could've seen on the NES (though there are modern ports), or the 1991 GB. The original is a half megabyte game so ROM size alone was a bit prohibitive. There were design philosophy prerequisites too. You'd need a time machine to make it happen earlier. There were a few PC games which the Amiga probably could have handled but the incentives weren't there to do anything. Master of Orion, Star Control II? Then there's the whole Japanese PC scene. PC-88 & PC-98 games had excellent and "exotic" Japanese hirez pixel art. The Amiga could've handled some of the games but the prevalent cartoon style here was... something like the Jetset Willy cover. On the top of my head... the pseudo-manga games we got was Apidia, Leander, Shadowlands/worlds, Turrican, though these were pretty light on scene/character art. In the sexy game department we had to make do with the HAM Strip Poker games. JRPGs might have worked really well on the Amiga too since they're slow but with pretty encounter/monster images. I don't think the DOS PC got much of those either. It was more console territory. Aside from games, Workbench & work software kinda started to fall behind. I moved onto DTP on the mac in the mid 90s and System 7 was so nice looking with the Susan Kare aesthetics. The Amiga had this weird tall pixel dither thing going on with a mishmash of palette distorted icons or missing icons. WB is still very usable though... and meanwhile modern OSes seem to get less usable ~ haha ~ For reference: best selling games of 1993 according to Wikipedia:
Overseas Sonic did well, and Lemmings was still going strong. Soccer, NBA, Super Bowl and Golf was a thing. People wanted Jurassic Park stuff. Link's Awakening came out. In the US on PC, these apparently games sold well: 7th guest, SW Rebel Assault, King's Quest VI, Return to Zork, Dracula Unleached, and Just Grandma & Me. The latter is a game for younger kids. I guess as an older person it's easy to forget about these titles. Here's the top Youtube comment on Just Grandma & Me (1.4M view video). Dated 10 years ago: Hearing this makes me cry. So many memories. It automatically takes me back from fifteen years ago. So... still being played in 1999? Certain games are a little more evergreen. Last edited by Arne; 19 February 2024 at 16:05. |
19 February 2024, 17:56 | #1325 |
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I think there was an accelerator for the CDTV lol so there are options but then it's still only a 150kb/s drive, I think by the time the Lucas Arts CD-ROM stuff was coming out quad speed was minimum requirement. Maybe a proper port with stuff like Clarissa SSA format would help with data rate but ultimately the CDTVs bespoke single speed drive is going to limit that machine.
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19 February 2024, 17:59 | #1326 |
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I think in the late 80s for ultimate action style PC gaming it was the FM Towns that was king, it got some really lovely games. It's only a 386/16 I think but it had great video and audio cards. Shadow of the Beast on FM Towns is awesome but then so is the bespoke ISA card in the machine, assuming that's how they did it. It did run a version of DOS and I think I've seen a version of Windows running on it.
I would have been really happy to have an FM Towns, a lot happier than with my 486 of 1992 |
19 February 2024, 18:21 | #1327 | |
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20 February 2024, 02:13 | #1328 | ||
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The Settlers was an awesome game. Only problem was it came out in 1993. Dune II was another excellent strategy game, also released in 1993. I haven't played the PC version so I can't say how it compares, and don't feel any need to. One thing that really impressed me was how it is fully multitasking. Yes, it was possible to produce good system friendly games on the Amiga! OTOH Sim City 2000 crawls even on an A1200 with 50MHz 030 and 32MB RAM. A travesty! But that's what you get from lazy ports. Quote:
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20 February 2024, 09:59 | #1329 |
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As well as being beautifully intricately designed as a game, The Settlers is a classic case of designing a game around the Amiga - levels which are small enough that both they and the game code fit into 1Mb, with bigger levels available (as 'friendly' games rather than part of the main mission structure) if you have a hard drive to store them on. Add the bonus of music and extra sound available with more memory, and the use of EHB for the subtle colouring, The later PC version added a 640x480 graphics mode, but almost no Amigas could have supported that at a decent speed anyway.
Amiga Sim City 2000 needing an A1200, 4Mb and a hard drive is understandable as its similar to the PC version's minimum specs (whereas Dune II only needs a 286, hard drive and base memory (a phrase which still brings terror to me)) but the fact that the Mac version apparently runs faster when emulated on a high-end Amiga is not excusable. |
20 February 2024, 18:05 | #1330 | |
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Would be nice to run some test conversions of Sam n Max graphic data as anim files streamed on an actual CDTV to see how it gets on. I don't know how Lucas Arts did it but if the backgrounds are static maybe a few anim brushes over static background for a CDTV bespoke port could have worked. I am not sure but I think C64 Defender of the Crown was hard coded, definitely the Amstrad CPC port so if a company wanted to do it freelance/licensed port it would probably do it like that. Don't have the tools to even guess the success rate of the CDTV doing it with a single speed drive. Is there a A1200/CD32 2mb version of SCUMVM to test out things like Sam and Max etc? |
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20 February 2024, 19:59 | #1331 | |
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Novastorm for certain without checking is double speed, the 3DO/PSX versions obviously were, and the cut-down Mega CD version worked on its single speed drive. |
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21 February 2024, 01:13 | #1332 |
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Yeah, I am pretty certain it was a double speed mitsumi with a bespoke ISA interface card I got, it was not long after I got my 486 and before I got a sound card as I had to choose which to get first and I opted for the CD as I wanted to get some CDs packed with high resolution images like the official Boris Valejo CD.
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21 February 2024, 01:32 | #1333 | |
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From my personal gameplay experience, and I've played it a lot, and also many other platformers, that game is very smooth, and with one of the best gameplay feel and mechanics amongst platformers. I only encounter slowdown (for just one second) when I trigger that thingy that destroys everything on the screen. And I am not of a sort of people that are unsensitive on low fps. Gods for example.. great game.. but I just couldn't enjoy it because of low fps. |
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22 February 2024, 05:33 | #1334 | |
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24 February 2024, 00:24 | #1335 |
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That looks really cool seeing it run on the A1200.
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28 February 2024, 22:08 | #1336 |
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The weird part is that I can ONLY play Gods in the 25fps format. If I play the PC remaster version (with original graphics of course), it just feels wrong. Too fast, too floaty. The lower framerate makes movement feel like it has weight.
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08 June 2024, 19:08 | #1337 |
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I tried comparing the second Roger Rabbit game and the DOS version despite the VGA and Soundblaster support looks much worse and sounds worse than the Amiga version. There should have been some parity at least. It seems 1991 was still a year of experiments for the DOS platform.
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12 June 2024, 00:48 | #1338 |
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Yeah in 1991 you could really see which games were built for DOS and which were simply also ported to it.
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Yesterday, 16:34 | #1339 | |
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A huge number of IBM PC MS-DOS games were refined to the point of mastery by 1991. You shouldn't need to look up moby games, wikipedia or youtube vidslop spam to know that is true. And I shouldn't need to name the games. There were a ton of good CGA games by 1985. Arcade-action games, too. Official coinop conversions that the ST/Amiga would never get. The ST/Amiga would get clones thereof... years later. EGA reached its height in 1989. By 1987 EGA had flexed enough in certain important and influential genre such that ST/Amiga could not compete with its best offerings, though I would still contend that the Amiga beat the 286 EGA IBM PC, overall. VGA started spreading its wings in 1988 and was refined by 1990 across most genre. Of course, VGA would smash the ST and Amiga into smithereens across the board by 1993, but there were examples of VGA games outperforming the Amiga in "Amiga genre" by as early as 1991. Last edited by Lilura; Yesterday at 16:44. |
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Yesterday, 20:23 | #1340 |
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What are we defining as 'Amiga genres'? If you mean flight sims, adventures, strategy games, I'd agree with this - PCs powerful enough to run the best 1991 games in those genres to their potential would be better than an Amiga for those genres. Games like Monkey 2, EOTB 2, Civ and Gunship 2000 well before the Amiga versions, plus a few like Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe and Falcon 3.0 that the Amiga never got. Even if you had a hard drive and accelerator for the Amiga, the PC versions would still potentially win on colour depth or resolution. We're talking a £400 Amiga (plus an A501 for £100 tops if you didn't already have it) compared to a £1500 386 though - and, of course, a 1987 £2000 PC was pretty obsolete by now in a way a 1987 £500 A500 wasn't.
For action games though (which is what I'd think of as 'Amiga genres', especially if we're talking in comparison to PCs), beyond an impressive version of Prince of Persia (which in VGA certainly looks better than Amiga), maybe LHX Attack Chopper if you stretch the definition of an 'action' game, I'm struggling. What big action games were there for PCs by then, aside from inferior ports of Speedball II and Gods, and the Epic and Apogee stuff (in CGA or EGA only, which doesn't look like anything the ST couldn't do, let alone the Amiga). Which action games from 1991 would you suggest to show a PC matching an Amiga. Or from 1989 in EGA to match an Amiga (Prince of Persia still, and OutRun perhaps, though more because Amiga OutRun is so bad), for that matter? Would you prefer CGA and beeper or a C64 for arcade-style games in 1985 though? Last edited by Megalomaniac; Yesterday at 22:16. |
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