Was anyone else disappointed with the A1200?

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by Thomas Richter

That is note really a good comparison. Actually, for memory, that instructions are twice as wide as on the C64, and data is often even four times as wide as on the C64, thus a 256K Amiga is pretty much "the same" as the 64K of the C64.

[Karlos]

Originally Posted by Thorham

Except the Mac

The Mac absolutely died. The brand lived on, not the platform. First the 680x0 line was dumped for PPC. Then the OS was dumped for X. Then the PPC was dumped for intel. Then the intel was dumped for Arm...

Saying the Mac lived on is like saying Trigger's (the street cleaner character from the UK comedy Only Fools and Horses) same broom lived on for 30 years having only had 17 new heads and 14 new handles.

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by Karlos

The brand lived on

Exactly. None of the others did.

[Karlos]

Originally Posted by Thorham

Exactly. None of the others did.

ARM holdings did ok...

[Thomas Richter]

Originally Posted by Karlos

The Mac absolutely died. The brand lived on, not the platform. First the 680x0 line was dumped for PPC. Then the OS was dumped for X. Then the PPC was dumped for intel. Then the intel was dumped for Arm...

...and when PPC arrived, you could still use your 68K programs for a while, etc... The ecosystem survived mostly unharmed, and it was and still is an active market for which you could buy software and hardware. For the 68K Amiga, well... there is a little bit of a retro market, but nothing as large as the Mac or Apple market. Don't judge from the particular specifications of the hardware, judge from the market perspective.

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by Karlos

ARM holdings did ok...

I thought they only did CPUs

[minator]

Originally Posted by Karlos

The Mac absolutely died. The brand lived on, not the platform.

I think Apple would rather disagree with that. The Mac platform is whatever Apple says it is.

First the 680x0 line was dumped for PPC. Then the OS was dumped for X. Then the PPC was dumped for intel. Then the intel was dumped for Arm...

It evolved. The underlying hardware and software has changed over time because it became obsolete. The CPUs became obsolete and were replaced, the OS became obsolete and was replaced. 32 bit was replaced with 64 bit...

The Amiga also evolved, CPU was changed to a 020, an 030 and even 040.
The chipset was replaced with AGA, and would have been replaced with AAA.

Saying the Mac lived on is like saying Trigger's (the street cleaner character from the UK comedy Only Fools and Horses) same broom lived on for 30 years having only had 17 new heads and 14 new handles.

By that argument, the A1000 is the only Amiga ever made.

[Locutus]

The original MacOS Toolbox API stuck around as Carbon until 2019, at which point The Cocoa (NeXT derived) API had existed for longer than the whole 68k Mac line did.

That's one hell of a migration trajectory, if that's not preserving a platform I don't know what is.

[AestheticDebris]

Originally Posted by Karlos

The Mac absolutely died. The brand lived on, not the platform. First the 680x0 line was dumped for PPC. Then the OS was dumped for X. Then the PPC was dumped for intel. Then the intel was dumped for Arm...

The PC absolutely died. The brand lived on. First the 16-bit DOS was replaced by a 16-bit Windows kernel. Then that was replaced by a "386 Enhanced" hypervisor. Then that was replaced by a fully 32-bit Windows 9x. Which was subsequently replaced by a totally redesigned, 32-bit, VMS clone called Windows NT. Which was then replaced by a 64-bit NT derivative. And modern versions of that bear little resemblance to their original....

If Mac is Triggers Broom, the PC is The Ship of Theseus.

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by AestheticDebris

And modern versions of that bear little resemblance to their original....

You can still install MS-DOS on new peecees, though

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Thorham

You can still install MS-DOS on new peecees, though

Aye: [ Show youtube player ]

[Promilus]

Legacy mode in UEFI already is low level emulation layer... If that was on ARM machine would you actually care as long as it works?

[TCD]

Nope. It's like the Matrix with PCs: Nobody cares as long as it tastes like steak

[Karlos]

Originally Posted by Thomas Richter

...and when PPC arrived, you could still use your 68K programs for a while, etc... The ecosystem survived mostly unharmed, and it was and still is an active market for which you could buy software and hardware. For the 68K Amiga, well... there is a little bit of a retro market, but nothing as large as the Mac or Apple market. Don't judge from the particular specifications of the hardware, judge from the market perspective.

I'm not judging at all. And if I were, I'd say they've done a good job with each migration. However, there's no question that the Mac classic doesn't exist in any way shape or form in the DNA of any recent apple product.

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by TCD

Aye: [ Show youtube player ]

Pretty crazy, huh

[TEG]

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott

The funny thing is, every other home computer line died too.

I don't see it as a problem. Does anybody complain about Amstrad being 'so badly managed' that the ZX Spectrum and CPC died? Or the BBC micro and Archimedes, Atari ST, MSX etc.? As a result of dying, every one of those platforms maintained its identity throughout its life. Better to retire with that identity intact than try to turn it into something else.

In case you weren't aware, the Amiga had a real and friendly OS for which a mountain of software were developed and so an ecosystem was created. This is the difference with all the other systems you cited. The ST OS, naturally, being the more close one but very limited in comparison.

Finally I really wonder if you like the Amiga and what it represent as you regularly post such troll messages.

[malko]

Originally Posted by Thorham

Pretty crazy, huh

Yes. Sad that "Tomb Raider" was not tested.

[Karlos]

Originally Posted by TCD

Aye: [ Show youtube player ]

I was going to post this too. It's sketchy but it still runs and doubtless runs many non-game applications perfectly well. The key difference here to the Mac is that the core instruction set is still supported by the hardware even after all these decades.

It does also make you wonder where we might be if they'd been more forwards than backwards focused over that timeframe.

[AestheticDebris]

Originally Posted by TCD

Aye: [ Show youtube player ]

But probably not for much longer:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64#X86S

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by Thomas Richter

That is note really a good comparison. Actually, for memory, that instructions are twice as wide as on the C64, and data is often even four times as wide as on the C64, thus a 256K Amiga is pretty much "the same" as the 64K of the C64.

Not quite sure what you are trying to say here - that the A1000 was effectively no better than the C64?

I don't know what "they" are, but I would have wanted a machine that is *competative* to a PC, not a PC. The PC architecture is awkward, but what I would have loved to see are better graphics and graphics organizations, possibly hi-color, possibly a faster blitter, possibly CD-quality audio (and no, the 10-bit 4-channel audio was not on-par anymore).

Sure, we all would have liked that (so long as it was affordable). But the market needed a lot more than just better hardware - it needed PC compatibility. Lack of compatibility means not being able to run the latest games and apps, share files or use peripherals like printers and scanners. Where is the software to fix this problem going to come from, and who will pay for it?

Realistically, we had to switch to PCs just to be compatible. I had an A3000 with 60MHZ 060, 32MB of RAM and RTG, but I couldn't run Netscape or Microsoft Internet Explorer so websites I wanted to use were not available. I also couldn't read word documents or pdf files, couldn't play Tomb Raider, couldn't program MCUs or make professional PCBs, couldn't use the new printers coming out etc. I was a hardcore Amiga fan who vowed never to give up on it, but there comes a time when it's too much effort for no gain.