26 June 2024, 17:53 | #5161 |
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26 June 2024, 18:20 | #5162 |
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When you realize that the A1000 had Commodore software (some of which were games) and the A1200 didn't even get an updated reference before launch you get the idea that it was a fault on many levels. Not picking a lane was certainly one of the bigger ones, but it didn't stop there.
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26 June 2024, 19:34 | #5163 |
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Only by silly people Toy systems don't have all the applications the Amiga has available. Who would write all that software just for a toy system? It makes no sense.
A gaming peecee is basically just a workstation that someone uses for gaming. |
26 June 2024, 21:01 | #5164 |
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26 June 2024, 22:44 | #5165 | |
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On the contrary I can remember the advertising for the PC, Apple and even Amstrad PCW: "In ten minutes it changed my life". "The writing" Amstrad also used advertising billboards. Never saw that for the Amiga. Instead Commodore money was used for this (1993) : Maybe sailboat fans were big Amiga consumers? Getting a computer onto the market isn't just about electronics especially if you're a challenger. And they did very well for the C64. So the surprise and the still head scratching 39 years later about the debacle. |
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26 June 2024, 22:58 | #5166 | |
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26 June 2024, 23:17 | #5167 | |
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My wife still joke about that even nowadays. My love for the Amiga probably equal my hate for this plastic club . Note that also AJ Auxerre was sponsored by Commodore. |
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26 June 2024, 23:45 | #5168 | |
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I did a search, the PSG sponsoring was 1991-1994 ! They must have sunk a fortune into it. It was in the same line of the A1000 advertising, completely abstract. You show a name that nobody have an idea of what about it is. The intermediate steps were completely missing. "Commodore? Oh yeah, I remember now. The ones who did the C64 toy. They are still alive?" Clearly, it seems there was another large pool of potential buyers in the suburbs : I would not be surprised if there was more than what we saw at the surface. I mean political influences, money funnelling or whatever. Last edited by TEG; 26 June 2024 at 23:59. |
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27 June 2024, 00:58 | #5169 | |
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IMO they should have recompiled Kickstart for x86 by 1993 and picked a low end and high end SVGA off the shelf chipset(one for £400 and one for £2000 Amiga) and put them on a bespoke mobo with AMD386 40mhz for A1400 etc. My 486 was half the price of an A4000/040 in Autumn 1992 and it was downhill all the way as the 4000/040 hardly dropped and was priced like a Pentium PC by March 94 and much more expensive than like for like Mac LC475. The 486 was a turning point just as 6502 and 68000 were, Commodore failed to notice. |
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27 June 2024, 01:35 | #5170 |
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I don't think a 386 or 486 would've been a great Amiga system - even with a fully reimplemented x86 native Kickstart and Workbench - in 1993. I mean unless the only software you intend to run on it was the OS itself and what came with it. You immediately lost compatibility with all existing software. Plus, it wouldn't run any PC software either, at least without significant effort put into something like Wine or just dual booting.
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27 June 2024, 02:28 | #5171 |
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That has absolutely nothing to do with Amiga Turn Amiga into a peeceee, how absurd
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27 June 2024, 04:02 | #5172 | ||
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The problem is people were trying to crowd into both of those lanes and didn't see the third lane in the middle that was largely unoccupied. |
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27 June 2024, 04:29 | #5173 |
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27 June 2024, 04:55 | #5174 |
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27 June 2024, 05:29 | #5175 | ||
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Sony's render compute power is split with CPU (30 MIPS @ 33.8 Mhz), 3D Geometry Transformation Engine (66Mhz @ 58 Mhz), and fixed-function Graphics (designed by Toshiba, no hardware Z-buffer). The compute target is over 99 MIPS. Amiga Hombre has a higher clocked PA-RISC with 3D extensions for the job. For a PC with fast PCI SVGA (e.g. ET6000 or S3 Trio 64U) without 3D acceleration, Pentium 60 is the minimum and recommended Pentium 75 or faster. [ Show youtube player ] Tomb Raider's software render @ 320x200 (console resolution level) on Pentium 83 OverDrive (about Pentium 75). At a higher price, a 1996-era Pentium PC equipped with 3DFX Voodoo beats any console version. Quote:
For translation efficiency, you need a fancy cutting-edge software translator like on Xbox One (little endian)'s Xbox 360 (big-endian) emulator that rivals Apple's Rosetta (from Transitive Corporation) effort. Due to Xbox One's CPU being weak Jaguar CPUs relative to IBM PPE target, Xbox One (little endian)'s Xbox 360 (big-endian) emulator needs a translated Xbox 360 game that has byte swapped applied, hence the large download. For every Amiga game, you need a little-endian translated version. Amiga custom chips have big-endian assumptions since it's designed for 68000. Emu68 runs its ARM CPU in a big-endian mode which improves translation efficiency. PC's Executor Mac68K emulator has an incomplete clean room MacROM programmed for X86 CPU, but this method wouldn't work for "kick-the-OS" Amiga games. Last edited by hammer; 27 June 2024 at 06:49. |
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27 June 2024, 05:46 | #5176 | |
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1. Gaming PC has a single fast AGP (64bit, 66 Mhz) slot vs workstation PC's multiple PCI-X (64bit, at least 66 Mhz). 2. Gaming PC has a single fast PCie 16X lanes slot vs workstation PC's multiple PCie 16X lanes. High-end gaming PC board such as ASUS ROG Crosshair X670E Hero or mid-high ASUS ROG Strix X670E has two PCie 8X lanes slots. Cheaper AM4 B550 and AM5 B650 motherboards have a single PCIe X16 lane slot which doesn't split into two PCie 8X lane slots which limits its expansion options. ASUS ROG Strix B650E is an exception due to two PCie 8X lanes slots capability, but its cost is higher than ASUS's TUF X670E. The pattern is similar to Intel's LGA1700 motherboards. Intel's ECC policy is restricted for LGA 1700 gaming PC platforms e.g. only W680 chipset. HEDT workstation PCs have ECC. AMD allows ECC for AM4 and AM5 gaming PC platforms e.g. from ASRock and ASUS brands. PC platform holders made sure that the gaming PC's expansion capability is inferior when compared to workstation PC. Gaming PC's single fast expansion slot is like the wedge Amiga's single Zorro slot idea, but the gaming PC market wasn't addicted to wedge C64/C128 cases. A1200's Budgie/AA-Gayle chipset could support a single fast 32-bit Zorro slot (limited to Zorro II's 24-bit address range) and a single ISA slot (via PCMCIA R&D) or a single slower 16-bit Zorro II slot. A1200 has the technology foundation but the Commodore is addicted to C64/C126 form factor. Usually, low-cost mini-tower PC cases are not designed to mount a heavy monitor, hence they use softer and cheaper metals, hence they are structurally weaker than A2000/A3000 cases. My university encloses PC clones in a steel-reinforced box while PowerMac desktops don't require it. The Amiga is missing a mid-range "gaming Amiga" model. Last edited by hammer; 27 June 2024 at 06:09. |
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27 June 2024, 07:46 | #5177 |
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27 June 2024, 08:46 | #5178 | ||||||||||||
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I recall, A3000 has an extra feature that fakes $C00000 slow memory address range into Chip RAM. Quote:
My bundled 68LC060 Rev 4 with TF1260 works at 74 Mhz. My 68LC060 Rev 4 was screened for 74 Mhz operation by one of the TF1260 builders. Quote:
It's relevant. "Economies of scale" matters. Quote:
Mid-range 3D gaming Amiga could have missing Amiga's video slot. Commodore was selling A3000/030 @ 25Mhz with 105 MB HDD for $899 in 1993. $899 + $299 CD32 = $1,198 which still cheaper than A4000/030 @ 25Mhz's $1599 asking price. Quote:
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Some posters claimed an extra 100,000 CD32s were in the Philippines warehouse when Commodore International went bust. https://archive.org/stream/AmigaComp...ul_94_djvu.txt From July 1994 Quote:
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You're not aware of the modern gaming PC situation. Examples 1. AM5 based low cost "MSI Pro b650M P" micro-ATX motherboard with MSI RTX 3080 Ti Gaming X Trio (OC model). Result: NO other PCIe slot is exposed due to GPU size. Needs a PCIe 1X ribbon extender. Layout PCIe x16 v4.0 PCIe x1 v3.0 (blocked) PCIe x1 v3.0 (blocked) 2. AM5-based ASUS TUF X670E Plus WiFi with Gigabyte RTX 4080 Gaming OC. Layout PCIe x16 v5.0. PCIe x4 v4.0, party blocked due to oversized GPU needing air intake clearance. PCIe x4 v4.0. 3. AM5-based ASUS ROG X670E Hero with ASUS TUF RTX 4090 OC edition (exceeds 450 watts). Result: The bottom PCIe (4X lanes) slot is usable or a very tight fit when two RTX 4090 are installed on two x8/x8 PEG slots and one of the two RTX 4090s would have a crap airflow. Layout PCIe x8 or x16 v5.0. Only single x16X active or two slots x8/x8 mode. PCIe x8 or x16 v5.0. Only single x16X active or two slots x8/x8 mode. PCIe x4 v4.0. AM5-based ASUS ROG B650E-E Layout PCIe x8 or x16 v5.0. Only single x16X active or two slots x8/x4 mode. PCIe x4 v5.0. PCIe x4 v4.0 A gaming PC's single fast PEG slot follows AGP product segmentation. The workstation PC has multiple symmetric fast slots i.e. multiple active PEG x16 slots. Quote:
https://bigbookofamigahardware.com/b...b8ad2575c0.jpg A1000Jr has four active Zorro II, 1 video slot, and 3 non-functional ISA slots. From https://bigbookofamigahardware.com/b...t.aspx?id=2015 A1000Jr's product segmentation A2200 has 2 Zorro II slots A2400 has 4 Zorro II slots A3200 has 2 Zorro II slots A3400 has 4 Zorro II slots These are on a daughterboard. Use a cheap mini-tower case with weak consideration for mounting a heavy monitor. During my A3000's RAM upgrade, my local PC vendor called A3000's case and frame as overkill. The goal for a single Zorro III's mass production is to expand the Zorro III addon market. Quote:
My argument is CD32 with just one Zorro III slot! CD32 already has an expansion edge connector and it's too bad it's not a Zorro II/III connector. A1200 and CD32 have expansion edge connectors that are not compatible with the Zorro II/Zorro III slot. Quote:
To preserve A4000's product segmentation, remove the video slot from the mid-range 3D gaming Amiga. My argument is just a single 32-bit Zorro III slot and a single 16-bit slot (e.g. PCMCIA or active ISA or Zorro II, pick one). No in-line expansion slots and no daughterboards. Think of a CD32 board with a single 32-bit Zorro III slot and a single 16-bit slot (pick one). A1200 already has a 32-bit data line Zorro-like with a 24-bit addressing edge connector and a 16-bit PCMCIA slot. Last edited by hammer; 28 June 2024 at 08:07. |
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27 June 2024, 09:07 | #5179 | |
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27 June 2024, 09:19 | #5180 | ||
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Tell that to everyone who used them for work
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So, what actually makes a peecee a gaming peecee then? |
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