Final Fight: Enhanced

[Marcio D.]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

@JonnySevern
@Tsak

Great job on graphics guys!
Hopefully at some point Brick Nash will decide to implement it.

This is an open question to those who are knowledgeable in programming and/or hacking/modding.


If Brick Nash has no interest in providing an extra palette and no interest in passing along the source code to a successor...


Would it be possible to mod the FFE file to change the 1991 palette to something more arcade accurate and pleasing to the eye? I see these sorts of ROM hacks in the vintage console world, so I'm wondering if the same things can be done to Amiga binary files.

[JonnySevern]

Thanks for the great feedback! I've been able to push things a little more with use of the copper

[pixie]

It's really nice, but I don't know if this is the right place to do it.

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by JonnySevern

Thanks for the great feedback! I've been able to push things a little more with use of the copper

Just excellent! Well done!

[d4rk3lf]

Originally Posted by pixie

It's really nice, but I don't know if this is the right place to do it.

Yeah, he should post in a thread: "Was anyone else disappointed with the A1200?"

[JonnySevern]

It's a valid point, though; maybe we should. I don't want to upset anyone. It's just a bit of fun

[pixie]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

Yeah, he should post in a thread: "Was anyone else disappointed with the A1200?"

I thought this was Brick Nash's Final Fight thread, I have nothing against the work per se, it's well done and all, and I would like to see a version made out of it, but once the point was made across perhaps a separated thread was better instead of doing here the updates, I have no doubt people would love to see how the work develops.

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

Yeah, he should post in a thread: "Was anyone else disappointed with the A1200?"

I don't see any harm done. The above work has been inspired by this port plus many people have suggested they would love to see it getting better gfx. At the same time there has been quite a lot of speculation in regards to how the gfx could be improved.

@BrickNash's work has been stellar in correcting the original port's shortcomings, especially in regards to gameplay and frame rate. But the gfx have only been marginally improved (imho), keeping the 'coder-art', conversions and palettes used in the original mostly intact. The above work showcases what could have been if an artist with good understanding of color and gfx conversion know-how would have been involved in the first place.

Afaik I remember reading from Nash that he was open using better gfx if they were handed to him in full. Not sure if this still stands but (in any case) what @JonnySevern did sure does look like the way to go and if he is willing to complete it and Nash likes it, we could see an even better version surfacing eventually (one can only dream), which -I'm pretty sure- would be appreciated by everyone. Worth noting is that similar showcases in other threads have yielded actual results and forged collaborations, so this presentation and discussion is definitely in the correct thread (probably not in the correct time, but that's another discussion), in order to be seen and evaluated by those involved or interested.

With the above said, I would STRONGLY recommend to vocal people in this thread (trying to push the GFX replacement narrative) to stop pressuring Nash to open or share his source or even continue working on this project with such aggression. This feels like bullying at this point (and a bit disrespectful as well) and it is guaranteed to bring opposing results. You've made your point and expressed your opinion already so please give it a rest.

[hammer]

Originally Posted by Tsak

I don't see any harm done. The above work has been inspired by this port plus many people have suggested they would love to see it getting better gfx. At the same time there has been quite a lot of speculation in regards to how the gfx could be improved.

@BrickNash's work has been stellar in correcting the original port's shortcomings, especially in regards to gameplay and frame rate. But the gfx have only been marginally improved (imho), keeping the 'coder-art', conversions and palettes used in the original mostly intact. The above work showcases what could have been if an artist with good understanding of color and gfx conversion know-how would have been involved in the first place.

Final Fight shared port has an Atari ST considerations. With Atari ST's 512 palette, can Final Fight port done better?

[hammer]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

Yeah, he should post in a thread: "Was anyone else disappointed with the A1200?"

This topic is about Amiga ECS 2MB version e.g. A500P, A600, and A3000.

There are Final Fight concept ports for A1200' AGA and they are very close to the arcade original. The problem is AGA's install base when the larger Amiga OCS/ECS install base acts like "Atari ST" against AGA platform.

[Cris1997XX]

Ugh, what the heck...aren't you tired of arguing 24/7, hammer?

[lesta_smsc]

I have just posted on another group, which seems to have taken negative turn and created arguments over opinions.

Let's be grateful for @Brick Nash excellent port. It is very easy to criticise, but I have not seen anyone else deliver on what could be possible.

Also, this is intended to run natively on an A600 - that in of itself is a great achievement! The fact that it works on other platforms is a bonus, not the intention.

He dedicated several years to get this far, I'm sure with the usual challenges of work and other commitments.

If you feel you can do better - please embark on your journey to demonstrate it.

If you want to encourage @Brick Nash to extend the scope - request politely.

It's a shame the game isn't on Ko-Fi or similar, probably due to copyright/licencing or fear of legal repercussions, but I'm sure it would be a popular stream of income for @Brick Nash .

In short, can we please be civil and appreciative

[d4rk3lf]

Originally Posted by hammer

This topic is about Amiga ECS 2MB version e.g. A500P, A600, and A3000.

Hey bro, I was joking.

@Tsak
As like 99% of the time, I fully agree with every sentence you wrote.
(the 1% is when you said that some of Doom textures looked good )

Originally Posted by lesta_smsc

Let's be grateful for @Brick Nash excellent port.

Exactly
As I said earlier in this thread, as far as I am concerned, this is done work. And it's an excellent work. Everything else is just icing on the cake.
If new graphics find it's way into the new Build - great. If not - great.

But as Tsak said, Brick Nash will probably implement only if graphics are fully done, not just small part of it.

And I'll say again that I think JonnySevern work is simply amazing, and with Tsak suggestions, it gets even better.

Cheers all.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by Marcio D.

How many of us would be willing to contribute to a Patreon for Brick Nash to continue working on FFE - e.g. fixing bugs, providing an option for a new palette, improving A.I., further code optimizations, producing an AGA port down the road, etc.?

Seems like a lot of people believe that throwing money at a person is all that is required for them to bend to their will Capitalism is gross.

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by Amiga1992

Seems like a lot of people believe that throwing money at a person is all that is required for them to bend to their will Capitalism is gross.

Well, it creates a "customer-client" relationship that make them feel more entitled to it; money might NOT make him bend the will but, especially in hard times, goes hardly unappreciated.

[TCD]

Except for a few hardware projects that maybe turn a profit, there is only one currency left for Amiga projects: Motivation. Demanding things is not a good way to create motivation. That doesn't mean money can't be a supporting factor.

[Torti-the-Smurf]

Please visit Prototron´s Site and read the About Me, GameDev and Blog

https://prototron.weebly.com/about-me.html

Quote : "The game took three years to complete and involved learning how to program the Amiga
from scratch in 68000 assembly language."

[BigD]

Originally Posted by Torti-the-Smurf

Please visit Prototron´s Site and read the About Me, GameDev and Blog

https://prototron.weebly.com/about-me.html

Quote : "The game took three years to complete and involved learning how to program the Amiga
from scratch in 68000 assembly language."

I read that and think it would be a shame not to polish it then! Brick Nash can do what he wants but as with the Command & Conquer ports by Arcziii, the motivation seems to be showing it was possible i.e. produce an beta version rather than add polish. It is just infuriating (not entitled) when these were THE games of our childhood and the Amiga got poor Atari ST ports or was sidestepped completely. It would be nice to put this right! Maybe we've been spoilt by Tiny Bobble by Abyss and Ms Pacman 500 from JOTD previously?

[Marcio D.]

Originally Posted by lesta_smsc

Let's be grateful for @Brick Nash excellent port. It is very easy to criticise, but I have not seen anyone else deliver on what could be possible.

If you feel you can do better - please embark on your journey to demonstrate it.

If you want to encourage @Brick Nash to extend the scope - request politely.

In short, can we please be civil and appreciative

Yet another "Make your own if you want to see improvements" directive.


It's ironic that the game being discussed is Final Fight, a game about tough heroes battling tough villains. Meanwhile, so many of us here are overly-sensitive, weak, and adverse to critique. If critique is bad, should all game reviews in various media be banned from now on?


This entire thread has been full of appreciation and adulation, so much so that some of us even want to financially tip Brick Nash. Don't confuse passion with incivility.

[jotd]

Originally Posted by Torti-the-Smurf

Quote : "The game took three years to complete and involved learning how to program the Amiga
from scratch in 68000 assembly language."

This is impressive. Assembly is only one part of the project. But you have to learn how amiga hardware works (bitplanes, blitter, copper, audio), a minimal system knowledge (open files, setup screen, disable interrupts...) and manage the assets.

3 years is a very short span to learn (and somehow master) all those topics. Anyone else would have started by Space Invaders or Pong, but nooooo