29 June 2023, 09:44 | #441 |
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Kudos for this ~ kids gave it a good workout (school hols here), running in Amiberry. Really good OOTB experience there, HDF is fastest but the ISO isn't far behind with turbo read on...just start with a 8mb expanded A1200 config (ks3.0), set CPU speed to fastest (68020), load the HDF/ISO and go...really not a lot to fix if anything ~ looking forward to beating the kids' highscores when they go back to school =)
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29 June 2023, 10:01 | #442 | |
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29 June 2023, 10:07 | #443 |
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Like I say, that’s what I do. One system alloc for chip, one for fast. (WHDLoad does not allow any other way - although it would occasionally be useful!)
I still have to virtually alloc and free within those blocks though because you can’t fit the entire game in RAM at once. Things need to be loaded and unloaded. So fragmentation still exists. Last edited by Muzza; 29 June 2023 at 10:19. |
29 June 2023, 10:33 | #444 | |
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29 June 2023, 10:37 | #445 |
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29 June 2023, 10:43 | #446 | |
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I know that WHDload alloc memory only once. But Your game alloc memory many times. MUST ALLOC MEMORY ONLY ONCE TOO. f.e. for chip memory You need: 2x320kB for screen buffer graphics data for Level 1 and music for Level 1 in total 500kB (You choosed the biggest value from all T2 AGA levels) other data located in chip memory 100kB then in total You need maximum of chip memory equal 2x320+500+100=1240kB and You allocated 1240kB of chip ram only ONCE, via BSS_C or AllocMem. Later game is handling this chip area for all game levels, intro and outro. |
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29 June 2023, 10:57 | #447 |
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The "Amiga Dos" version works flawless; maybe give that one a try.
Greetings & good luck; Torti Last edited by Torti-the-Smurf; 29 June 2023 at 16:15. Reason: adding good luck ;) |
29 June 2023, 12:06 | #448 | |
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Sorry, I don't really understand. Take this simplified scenario: You have 1000k of Chip RAM total. Level 1 needs 4 files loaded into RAM from disk: A: 400k B: 100k C: 400k D: 100k Level 2 needs these 6 files loaded: B: 100k D: 100k E: 300k F: 200k G: 200k H: 100k When going from level 1 to level 2, I have two options. Option 1: Trash A,B,C,D and load B,D,E,F,G,H over it. Zero fragmentation, but I am reloading B and D - increasing loading times. Option 2: Keep B and D in RAM and discard A and C. Then I have: FREE SPACE: 400k B: 100k FREE SPACE: 400k D: 100k Now load E,F,G,H in the Free Space so I end up with: E: 300k H: 100k B: 100k F: 200k G: 200k D: 100k Level 2 fits in RAM and loading/decompression is faster because 200k of data was preserved from level 1. The downside is that over time, fragmentation increases. I remember dealing with this back on the Playstation 1 era. There is no perfect solution, but there are several less-than-perfect work-arounds. For this game I prioritized load times because of the floppy version and because some of the decompression times can be significant too. |
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29 June 2023, 14:27 | #449 | ||
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But how many disks is that data spread over? Ideally there should be no more than one disk change between levels and no changes if restarting the same level. Quote:
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29 June 2023, 15:00 | #450 | |
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Think how works original Turrican 2. This game needs only 0.5MB chip from $0 to $80000 area. Then if You allocate 0.5MB of chip ram under OS and relocate all absolute addresses to new values, You can run this game from different memory, but it still needs only 0.5MB of chip. F.e for original T2, of course I dont remember exactly location. all ingame music are loaded at $60000, no difference if TFMX song has 60kB or 50kB, all graphics level data are loaded $20000 and memory area from $20000 to $60000 is reserved for level graphics data, not important if some levels used f.e only $20000 KB or $30000 KB. $40000 KB of memory is reserved for graphics level data. Original T2 has short loading screen, then all old level data can be overwritten. From Your example You need 1000k of memory. Then alloc only 1000k once. And show short loading screen, and load/depack all necessary to 1000k area. |
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30 June 2023, 00:22 | #451 | ||
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I just did a timing and level 1-2 would take 40 seconds rather than 16 seconds to load on floppy if I did not preserve files from level 1-1. I think the players prefer the 16 second version. Also bare in mind that much of that time is on decompression rather than actual disk access. The game is on three floppies (and I went to great lengths to get it to fit - hence the compression) and there is never more than a single disk change. Quote:
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30 June 2023, 01:30 | #452 | |
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It might make sense when working with tight 500k/ASM/1 floppy games, where the musicians, artists and level designers can be given hard limits. But there is a reason gamedevs moved away from this approach as games increased in size. On the surface it may looks like all that changed in my AGA version was double the number of bitplanes, but there is a lot more to it. There is 600k of sound data the original did not have for a start (due to this version using a sound effect mixer). The loading/decompression times can not be compared between a 512k/1 floppy game and a 3MB/3 floppys game. World 2-2 uses 128k of unique sound effects (mostly the wind tunnel). If I reserved that 128k globally, it would be wasted space for every other level. Instead World 5-2 can use that space for the final boss battle sprites (just an example - but every level has a different distribution of assets). I also desired to keep it flexible for future additions or new projects. At the end of the day, it would have resulted in greater RAM usage and slower loading times (e.g. I measured 16 seconds to 40 seconds for World 1-2). So I prefer the dynamic approach in this case. |
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30 June 2023, 10:55 | #453 |
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Ok, this is Your choice, how you handle allocated memory, but if World 2-2 need 128k of unique SFX, then this memory must be allocated too. If You allocated this memory later and free this area some times then memory can be fragmented. Much better is allocated all necessary memory area only once and later overwritten this area many times without allocation and deallocation. Original Turrican 2 is good example how this is done. Game is showing short loading screen and short/jingle music is played when game data are overwritten (loaded and depacked). And if Turrican 2 AGA needs 2MB fast, then You have perhaps enough memory for storing inside fast most used game data for reduce disk swapping and loading time. You must/can be smart using all available for game memory. Allocation and deallocation too many times is not good idea for me. And Your later projects will be affected too. I dont think that someone who played Turrican 2 AGA or Your other game after 2-3 hours of playing will be happy seeing "Not Enough Memory!" requester. But this is Your choice. I know that it needs extra work and time for changing how memory is handling in T2 AGA, but of course You can use this method in Your other projects too.
BTW. Could You tell me how many times Turrican 2 AGA was downloaded ? |
30 June 2023, 14:58 | #454 |
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can this be made into a CD32 image that does not require Fast RAM for those with stock CD32s? i remember JOTD making some of these at some point I think using CD32Load maybe
this game is incredible the ultimate Turrican II for real!! |
01 July 2023, 03:47 | #455 |
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Turrican2_AGA_Amiga_v1.0.zip 6,506 Turrican2_AGA_Amiga_v1.1.zip 1,779 Turrican2_AGA_Amiga_v1.15.zip 248 Turrican2_AGA_Amiga_v1.18.zip 2,937 |
01 July 2023, 03:52 | #456 | |
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If it did, then I would have released it like that! |
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01 July 2023, 09:11 | #457 |
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01 July 2023, 09:19 | #458 |
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01 July 2023, 09:26 | #459 | ||
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One more question:- would it be possible to relocate data blocks to close up gaps and prevent fragmentation? |
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01 July 2023, 10:27 | #460 | |
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B-100k D-100k A-400k C-400k For level 2 it will be as: B-100k unchanged D-100k unchanged E- 300k H-100k F-200k G-200k |
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