Softwindows 2 - 68k

[Retro1234]

Originally Posted by Estrayk

I've a real Macintosh Performa 630 with 68040 40Mhz FPU.
if someone wants me to do some test or capture some video, tell me where to get the softwindows 1 for 68k and some image with some software and I'll try it.

That would be really fantastic I download SoftWindows from here https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/softwindows-10

There is also a preinstalled version in the Zone but this is a hardfile so I guess not much use to you on real hardware.......

If there is anything I can do let me know.

[drHirudo]

Originally Posted by Retro1234

That would be really fantastic I download SoftWindows

In my video I am running SoftPC 3.1 with Windows (1993), not SoftWindows, which is from year 1994, if there is difference, or it is just different bundle of same software.

[Estrayk]

Originally Posted by Retro1234

That would be really fantastic I download SoftWindows from here https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/softwindows-10

There is also a preinstalled version in the Zone but this is a hardfile so I guess not much use to you on real hardware.......

If there is anything I can do let me know.

I have used PCTASK many times on my Amiga but I had never installed Softwindows on the Mac and it really surprised me.
I've been using it for half an hour and it's practically the same as using a PC286 with windows 3.1, not faster, not slower, exactly the same. Considering it's only a 68040, it's frankly surprising. If someone wonders what is the difference with a PCTASK, I can't answer because my A1200 with 060 doesn't have RTG, and in AGA we all know that it penalizes quite a lot the graphic performance. But Softwindows gives me the feeling that it is faster, at least graphically speaking, I would have to test the PCTASK with RTG to make a real verdict.
I leave you a small video so you can see it with your own eyes.
By the way, it's nice that you can use the clipboard between mac and windows applications. A great detail for that time.

[ Show youtube player ]

[Retro1234]

Thank you so much really thanks for testing
Technically an Amiga with RTG running ShapeShifter should be able to match that speed. An Amiga without an RTG buth with a MMU with the ShapeShifter video MMUEvd driver is also fast.

So I'm gonna say it probably is faster than PC-TASK?

Here is a video of PC-TASK

[ Show youtube player ]

If you want anything to do some more testing let me know

[Retro1234]

Originally Posted by drHirudo

No. This is emulated Apple Macintosh IIci - Motorola 68030 @ 25 MHz.

What emulator are you using? And what's your host machine?

Originally Posted by drHirudo

In my video I am running SoftPC 3.1 with Windows (1993), not SoftWindows, which is from year 1994, if there is difference, or it is just different bundle of same software.

Not sure there is some speculation that the version of Windows included with SoftWindows in optimized in someway but that might not be true.

[redblade]

Maybe all the BIOS calls and some of the API have been converted to 68k to speed up BIOS/API calls?

[Retro1234]

Interesting idea.
I've extracted the SoftWindows 1 version of Windows 3.1 and couldn't get it to boot under VirtualBox/PC so something is different.

I may have more of a play and see if I can get it to boot under VirtualBox/PC and PC-Task/Amiga

[drHirudo]

Originally Posted by Retro1234

Interesting idea.
I've extracted the SoftWindows 1 version of Windows 3.1 and couldn't get it to boot under VirtualBox/PC so something is different.

I may have more of a play and see if I can get it to boot under VirtualBox/PC and PC-Task/Amiga

In my SoftPC video @8:09 you can see the display says SoftPC Display. Also mouse says SoftPC Mouse. So at least the display and the input drivers are tailored to the SoftPC (and SoftWindows probably).

[Retro1234]

Originally Posted by drHirudo

In my SoftPC video @8:09 you can see the display says SoftPC Display. Also mouse says SoftPC Mouse. So at least the display and the input drivers are tailored to the SoftPC (and SoftWindows probably).

What MAC emulator are you using?

[Retro1234]

Theres a new video on AmigaWave [ Show youtube player ]

There obviously an EAB reader so might have been nice if they'd updated the tread with there findings anyway it's in Spanish can someone translate........

[Retro1234]

I think I get the gist of the video.

But the reason it should be interesting is because of the rumor that the fastest 68k Mac is an Amiga.
[ Show youtube player ]

ShapeShifter and Fusion are a bit more like virtual machines than emulators because they share the same processor 68k and the MAC doesn't have complicated custom chips like the Amiga or maybe the Sega MegaDrive and other 68k machines etc

So in Theory ShapeShifter/Fusion running SoftWindows should be fast but only if you have a RTG or MMU ( for colour graphics emualtion is needed not just virtualization )

And an Amiga emulating a MAC with Vampire should be MAC 68k+++

DOS and DOS games could also be faster because if Windows 3.1 is patched it's just a GUI running on top of the DOS operating system so you would have to assume DOS is optimized.

[nogginthenog]

Tried this on ShapeShifter on my 060 and it's quite fast. Solitaire was playable.
Simply add the HFV file as a hardfile in the config.

[Retro1234]

Originally Posted by nogginthenog

Tried this on ShapeShifter on my 060 and it's quite fast. Solitaire was playable.
Simply add the HFV file as a hardfile in the config.

Cool thanks for letting me know

Do you have RTG?

Would you say it is faster than PC-Task or PCX?

[nogginthenog]

Yes I have RTG.

I had a peek around and I found a serial # for SoftWindows (Serial number for v1.0.2: (68k)):
http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/softwindows-10

I also found MacPC by the same company. It's a newer and also works. There is not much info about this product I can find. It seems very similar.
https://archive.org/details/MacPC

Serial (first comment):
http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macpc

I tried running Windows in PC-Task4 and it's painfully slow!
Don't have PCX installed right now.

[Retro1234]

Originally Posted by nogginthenog

Yes I have RTG.

I had a peek around and I found a serial # for SoftWindows (Serial number for v1.0.2: (68k)):
http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/softwindows-10

I also found MacPC by the same company. It's a newer and also works. There is not much info about this product I can find. It seems very similar.
https://archive.org/details/MacPC

Serial (first comment):
http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macpc

I tried running Windows in PC-Task4 and it's painfully slow!
Don't have PCX installed right now.

Thanks Dude that is great. I really! Wanted to know how it performed on real hardware.

So looks like it is faster than PC-Task etc.

It's always be on my list to have a look at this, don't know why it's taken me years!

MacPC looks interesting
"Pro-Tip: If you have Windows 3.1 install images, you can install Windows 3.1 from there and after installing Windows, enter "SPEEDUP" command in the DOS prompt to install Insignia drivers. This will make MacPC become SoftWindows."

Just wait and see if anyone runs it with MuEVD and tries some DOS games.

[drHirudo]

I've tried SoftWindows from The Zone on Vampire V4+ SA, with ShapeShifter, but it doesn't start. SoftPC with Windows on MacOS 8.1 freezes at the start:

I've tried removing SoftFPU, but still freezes or crashes at start.
I've also tried with MacOS 7.5.5, where it doesn't start at all.

Windows 3.1 works okay (not good speed, but usable) under PC-Task on the Vampire V4+:
[ Show youtube player ]

Many Macintosh games and even the browser iCab with the V4net.device work okay on the Vampire, so I am not sure if some patch or another version of SoftFPU, or OxyronPatcher could increase the Macintosh combability? Especially for SoftPC / SoftWindows.

The announced long time ago new version of Fusion Mac emulator is not yet released, so no way to test if there will be any difference. Or is it 68080 is not compatible enough, especially for emulators under emulators?

[Retro1234]

I wonder why it doesn't start.

[drHirudo]

Originally Posted by Retro1234

I wonder why it doesn't start.

Here is a video of install of SoftPC on ShapeShifter with MacOS 8.1 and then first start.

[ Show youtube player ]

It gives errors, crashes and freezes. The SoftWindows from The Zone doesn't start at all with some error code. I can try downloading it again and show a video of what happens, but after invalidating my PFS CF Card partition twice, because of ShapeShifter-ed Macs crashes, I am little cautious with the emulation under emulation.

I shall go experimenting with DOSBox on the Apollo V4+ as well.

[Retro1234]

I did mess up the install and it maybe the trial period has run out.

[Grex]

I never had notable problems running SoftWindows under Fusion (A4000/060 RTG).
However the topic of this thread of mine is "SoftWindows 2". It is version 2 of SoftWindows that is supposed to be lightning fast, because Insignia (the company that created SoftWindows) have bought the Windows-sourcecode from MicroSoft. However this version 2 was never released to public (at least not the 68k-version), only a few beta-testers have reported the enormous speed of version 2 on an Amiga-emulated Mac.
Running the old SofWindows 1.x under Fusion (I think I have never tested it under ShapeShifter) is fun, but nothing new, and from my experience this is slower than PcTask (even though this is just my personal impression, I never did any benchmarking).
Again: The actual goal of this thread is/was, to find someone who has this rare, unreleased 68k-version of SoftWindows 2. Version 1.x has "always" been widely available on the internet, even back then, when I started this thread many years ago.