26 April 2021, 21:38 | #1 |
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The different Amiga experience options?
Having recently realised my A500 went walkabout at some point over the years, I've been looking into the options for a "replacement". e.g. a secondhand real Amiga, software emulation and, only discovered today, hardware emulation via FPGA? (that I don't fully understand to be honest).
It got me wondering what other options are out there. I would rather have as close to a real Amiga experience as possible (i.e. not just loading games via Retroarch etc). I'm leaning away from a real Amiga because I always wanted an A1200 when I was young so would probably go down that route but they are too expensive now and I'd be concerned spending that much when you have no guarantee how long it will last and how easily parts would be available in the future. My brief experience of software emulation has not been great with WinUAE as I get graphical and audio glitches and too much time wasted messing with the settings. Mister FPGA sounds interesting but not cheap and some of the parts are hard to find in stock anywhwere. Are there any other options? Edit: Aplogies, after writing all that, I've seen there is a similar thread already. I should try searching. Sorry I'm getting old. (although that thread just confuses me as it seems to be talking more about accelerator boards) https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=105432 Last edited by Fuzzball; 26 April 2021 at 21:50. |
26 April 2021, 22:01 | #2 |
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If 1200 is too expensive for you then Amiga 500 with a gotek is the best cheap option. Gotek is a floppy drive emulator so you can put thousands of disks on a usb stick and use with your Amiga. Less than 150.
Amiga 600 is the next least expensive. |
26 April 2021, 22:08 | #3 | |
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There are some other FPGA boards which also run Amiga core (Minimig). The original MiST, SiDi: https://manuferhi.com/p/sidi and maybe some others, I can never remember which one does which anymore. SiDi is cheaper than MiSTer but also less powerful and has no HDMI. |
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26 April 2021, 22:17 | #4 | ||
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I'm also tempted by the Raspberry Pi 400 but then that relies on software emulation which I'm not having a great time with at the moment. Maybe emulation on Pi is better than Windows. Last edited by Fuzzball; 26 April 2021 at 22:22. |
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26 April 2021, 22:52 | #5 | |
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Plus SDRAM, but 128MB is only required for NeoGeo atm. I just had a look and its all available, but the price of the board seems to have gone up...used to be 130USD for ages. Now they're asking 124 GBP excluding VAT? Hmmm...covid prices? https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-de...496-ND/6817231 https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDeta...lZ1mz6Hfo58%3D The parts are still the same prices: https://misterfpga.co.uk/ Still, you should be able to squeeze it under 200GBP, depending on what you already have at home (mouse, pad, KB, USB hub etc). |
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26 April 2021, 22:59 | #6 |
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Thanks. Much appreciated. I'm a bit confused as to what the Mister FPGA board even does now as every internet article includes it. I think the bottom line is that I'd be a bit out of my depth with this option. I'm starting to think a real Amiga is my only realistic option.
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27 April 2021, 00:06 | #7 |
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I had a MiSTer with all the trimmings but it was not for me. The Raspberry Pi 400 is a great bit of hardware for emulating Amiga and quite a bit cheaper. It's also useful for other things when you're not doing Amiga emulation. Should be available worldwide in localized keyboard.
Of course as soon as you buy one they will release a new one with double the RAM or higher clock speed or something, but that's progress. easy: [ Show youtube player ] He talks about PiMiga when it was an earlier version. It now works fine on Pi400 and you don't need to go through another Pi first. I went for the whole 30GB download and am pretty happy with it! Last edited by aeberbach; 27 April 2021 at 00:20. |
27 April 2021, 00:13 | #8 |
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Although FPGA isn't strictly emulation, it's driven by it - most of the undocumented chipset features in the Amiga were discovered and implemented in emulators, and that information is what the FPGA is generally based on. It means that you get an accurate reproduction, nice hardware bonus features (such as proper scrolling etc) but if there are holes or bugs in the emulators then that carries through to the FPGA.
The Pi400 is an excellent choice for emulation of the Amiga, and getting better all the time. The MiSTer is nice, but you don't get as much raw speed and you're not likely to, either. |
27 April 2021, 10:44 | #9 | ||
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Do either of you get audio glitches with the pi 400? Running WinUAE and there is really bad audio (and a few video glitches) for me especially when running above "normal" speed. The problem is running WinUAE with exact cycles is painfully slow and also won't run the pimiga image very well. So I'm reluctant to go with another software emulation solution. |
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27 April 2021, 11:01 | #10 |
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That does not sound right Fuzzball. Maybe there are some settings that are causing issues. I run WinUAE alongside my real Amigas and don't find a huge difference. Can you give an example? We can then compare on our sides.
Is the pimiga meant to be run at stock speeds? I think it was designed for as mucd processor speed you can throw at it. |
27 April 2021, 11:08 | #11 |
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It happens with anything with audio. the demos in the iDemo, games, midi file playback, mp3 playback, etc.
There is less crackling if running at stock speed but still far from perfect. It is really bad when running WinUAE at fastest speed which pimiga requires. Perhaps I should try building my own hardrive image with workbench. I don't particularly like Pimiga anyway as it's too flashy for someone who only remembers the A500 with WB1.3 I only tried the Pimiga image for a quick and dirty test. |
27 April 2021, 11:33 | #12 | |
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The Mister is a more modern take on that - the primary video output is via HDMI, so is generally plug-and-play with modern screens. It also, by default, uses USB joysticks or control pads. There are additional boards that can provide DE-9 joystick ports or analogue video output if that's what you still want to use. As I've had a MiST for many years, I've never felt any need to purchase a Mister, however if you're coming into this from scratch and only have modern displays, the Mister would be a great option. It doesn't look great (IMO) by default (it is, after all, a development board that potentially has other boards hanging off it), but I'm pretty certain there are some pretty good cases also available nowadays. |
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27 April 2021, 11:35 | #13 | |
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I've used Amiga on an RPi for quite some time before jumping to MiSTer, it works well and is a great achievement overall, but when you're looking for that original "feel' (as OP says), the FPGA is a clear winner for me. |
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27 April 2021, 13:50 | #14 | |
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Ok, definitely. You should run a simple A500, WB1.3 through WinUAE with the same games and demos you tested. I also think Chris has configured Pimiga to run on the RaspberryPi, so there might be some config settings that are causing the issue. I also prefer creating my own hard drive images. Clean and simple. Also give FSUAE a go. Even if it is just for a point of comparison. |
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27 April 2021, 17:36 | #15 |
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I would choose an A1200 over any other type of Amiga, as it has AGA, and to be honest, no Amiga is complete without AGA.
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27 April 2021, 18:29 | #16 |
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It's a pity nobody told me (and a few million other users) back then that my A500 is incomplete. I'd demand a refund or something
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27 April 2021, 19:21 | #17 |
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Before the A1200 existed, then the A500 meant a complete Amiga, but that changed, of course. I mean, why would you NOT want an A1200? You'd enjoy the full library of A500 AND A1200 AGA games, with 100% compatibility, meaning the best of both worlds!
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28 April 2021, 03:20 | #18 | |
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But yeah, if I had the choice these days, A1200 without a doubt. (or 4000) |
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28 April 2021, 09:44 | #19 | |
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And yes, I am saying that an HDD is MANDATORY for an A1200, nothing less will do. |
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29 April 2021, 20:48 | #20 |
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Now I have WinUAE working reasonably well on my PC, I'm not so sure I made the right choice ordering the Mister FPGA parts. I may just return them. I can't imagine after getting WinUAE running that I would be that bothered about hardware emulation that runs at exact cycles. Sounds interesting but WinUAE seems good enough to me. People say there is input lag in software emulation. I'm sure that's true but I can't notice it.
As it turns out Digi-key messed up my order for the DE-10 so that didn't go through. It's just the USB hub and ram that I would need to return. The Mister FPGA just seems like a lot of money when WinUAE seems to satisfy my needs especially when I would still want to buy other parts - case, heatsink, 4A power supply, digital io board and keyboard (I don't have a spare). It all starts to add up. But I will be honest and say there is still a part of me that just wants to see it running to compare. |
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