Conversion Capers: Rygar - Page 111

Tigerskunk · 25 March 2019, 14:40

I think it depends on what can be achieved. If the game looks and plays reasonably similar, I don't see the problem in attempting a port, even if it looks a bit worse than in the arcade.
On the other side, games like Street Fighter 2 and Metal Slug are clearly over the A500s capabilities, and the result will probably be always unsatisfying.

Hewitson · 26 March 2019, 08:34

50hz shouldn't even be an option. The arcade game ran at 60hz. So should this.

Solo Kazuki · 04 April 2019, 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hewitson

50hz shouldn't even be an option. The arcade game ran at 60hz. So should this.

Unless You using PAL Amiga. You forgot that PAL is 50Hz.

Retro-Nerd · 04 April 2019, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solo Kazuki

Unless You using PAL Amiga. You forgot that PAL is 50Hz.

PAL-60Hz wouldn' be a problem though. This is a european standard since the mid 90s.

roondar · 04 April 2019, 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

PAL-60Hz wouldn' be a problem though. This is a european standard since the mid 90s.

While PAL-60Hz is technically possible, there is a reason no one uses it on the Amiga (and it's not problems with monitors/tv's).

The simple answer is that the Amiga is not made any faster by switching to 60Hz. As a result you lose over 17% processing power & Blitter time per frame*.

Given this game (like many others on the Amiga) require lots of Blitter time you're fairly likely to run into performance problems, especially given the OCS target. Remember, an OCS Amiga can only display about ~20 bobs of size 32x32 per frame and that is if the screen runs in 16 colours. Cutting this down further by upping the refresh rate sounds like a bad idea.

*) it's certainly going to be more than the 17% you might expect because there will be relatively more display DMA compared to PAL, which slows the Blitter down pretty dramatically (and processor if more than 4 bitplanes are used).

mcgeezer · 04 April 2019, 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by roondar

While PAL-60Hz is technically possible, there is a reason no one uses it on the Amiga (and it's not problems with monitors/tv's).

The simple answer is that the Amiga is not made any faster by switching to 60Hz. As a result you lose over 17% processing power & Blitter time per frame*.

Given this game (like many others on the Amiga) require lots of Blitter time you're fairly likely to run into performance problems, especially given the OCS target. Remember, an OCS Amiga can only display about ~20 bobs of size 32x32 per frame and that is if the screen runs in 16 colours. Cutting this down further by upping the refresh rate sounds like a bad idea.

*) it's certainly going to be more than the 17% you might expect because there will be relatively more display DMA compared to PAL, which slows the Blitter down pretty dramatically (and processor if more than 4 bitplanes are used).

I'm not going to comment on how much of a slow down is caused by running at 60hz but I will say that some people don't realise that there is a penalty for running at 60hz, just like more things can be placed on screen at 25 FPS.... the frame rate on the eyes suffers, 50 FPS is the PAL standard... and 60 FPS the NTSC standard... so that means an Amiga has less time to render a display than it does if it is going at 25 or 50 FPS.

I was looking for some resources for tutorials and found this brilliant video which I think is applicable here. Now this is a great watch for us tech heads.

[ Show youtube player ]

Cobe · 05 April 2019, 16:47

Queston for ntsc users. How do 30fps games look and feel like? I know 25 is chopy. Do those 5 aditional frames make some noticable difference?

DanScott · 05 April 2019, 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobe

Queston for ntsc users. How do 30fps games look and feel like? I know 25 is chopy. Do those 5 aditional frames make some noticable difference?

Hey Cobe, will be around your way next week

Cobe · 05 April 2019, 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanScott

Hey Cobe, will be around your way next week

Great! Looking forward! Pity you're not here already, we have retro meeting tomorrow.

DanScott · 05 April 2019, 19:03

Ah... I arrive on Sunday morning... just a little too late

DamienD · 07 April 2019, 21:55

All Street Fighter II discussions moved out of this thread to: Decent port of Street Fighter II possible?

Please try to stay on topic guys; if not then open a new thread. Simple really.

Tigerskunk · 07 November 2019, 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

Every time same old music? How much time I've spent allmost begging for Rygars' OCS gfx? I thought it was close this matter... Please

Just use placeholders like seen here..
[ Show youtube player ]

I am sure someone would want to provide you with graphics if they see that you actually willing to finish a project.

sandruzzo · 07 November 2019, 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steril707

Just use placeholders like seen here..
[ Show youtube player ]

I am sure someone would want to provide you with graphics if they see that you actually willing to finish a project.

Since, game is there. Would be better to do some changes at Rygar Aga. I've found some tricks that could speed-up OCS versions.

DamienD · 07 November 2019, 17:21

Above two post moved out of this thread: new amiga 500 doom like ! as it was way off topic...

sandruzzo · 07 November 2019, 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

Above two post moved out of this thread: new amiga 500 doom like ! as it was way off topic...

Thanks. I dont' know to do that.

sandruzzo · 07 November 2019, 17:55

@Steril707

I think would be better doing a fresh new one, as porting.

mcgeezer · 07 November 2019, 17:59

If someone can give some viable methods and ideas on how to rygar aga run well on ocs then i’ll open the code after i have fixed the final bugs in the game.

When i say viable i mean...

1) the parallax must remain
2) the colours must not suck so that it opens the game (but more so the a500) to negative criticism
3) the action in the game remains relatively the same

Dropping the frame rate is an option, but i cannot for the life of me see how to squeeze a 32 colour foreground into 8 colours, i will not look like rygar.

Geezer

sandruzzo · 07 November 2019, 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

If someone can give some viable methods and ideas on how to rygar aga run well on ocs then i’ll open the code after i have fixed the final bugs in the game.

When i say viable i mean...

1) the parallax must remain
2) the colours must not suck so that it opens the game (but more so the a500) to negative criticism
3) the action in the game remains relatively the same

Dropping the frame rate is an option, but i cannot for the life of me see how to squeeze a 32 colour foreground into 8 colours, i will not look like rygar.

Geezer

1) Parallax can be made by sprites.
2) No problems, we can optimize blitters usages with some tricks, to squeeze more power
3) If we need, we can update some enemies at 25hz, so we can have 50 hz scrolling

DanScott · 07 November 2019, 18:07

I personally would use a 16 colour screen, using maybe 4 sprites for Rygar player, and 4 sprites for the background parallax... sure the background would have to repeat a little more, but using some colour changes down the screen, it could look pretty good.

There are plenty of great 16 colour games out there that (IMHO) look graphically as nice as Rygar arcade.

I've spent a few nights over the last few months, converting some various coin-op sprite sets and tile sets to a fixed 16 colour palette, with some good results overall (some better than others)

sandruzzo · 07 November 2019, 18:08

We can keep 32 colors, we just need to optimeze blitter usage, and use more tricks for enemies.

25 March 2019, 14:40	#2201
Tigerskunk Inviyya Dude! Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Amiga Island Posts: 2,770	I think it depends on what can be achieved. If the game looks and plays reasonably similar, I don't see the problem in attempting a port, even if it looks a bit worse than in the arcade. On the other side, games like Street Fighter 2 and Metal Slug are clearly over the A500s capabilities, and the result will probably be always unsatisfying. Last edited by Tigerskunk; 25 March 2019 at 14:51.

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26 March 2019, 08:34	#2202
Hewitson Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 41 Posts: 3,772	50hz shouldn't even be an option. The arcade game ran at 60hz. So should this.

05 April 2019, 16:47	#2207
Cobe Registered User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Belgrade / Serbia Age: 41 Posts: 999	Queston for ntsc users. How do 30fps games look and feel like? I know 25 is chopy. Do those 5 aditional frames make some noticable difference?

05 April 2019, 19:03	#2210
DanScott Lemon. / Core Design Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Tier 5 Posts: 1,211	Ah... I arrive on Sunday morning... just a little too late

07 April 2019, 21:55	#2211
DamienD Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London / Sydney Age: 47 Posts: 20,420	All Street Fighter II discussions moved out of this thread to: Decent port of Street Fighter II possible? Please try to stay on topic guys; if not then open a new thread. Simple really.

07 November 2019, 17:21	#2214
DamienD Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London / Sydney Age: 47 Posts: 20,420	Above two post moved out of this thread: new amiga 500 doom like ! as it was way off topic...

07 November 2019, 17:55	#2216
sandruzzo Registered User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Italy/Rome Posts: 2,281	@Steril707 I think would be better doing a fresh new one, as porting.

07 November 2019, 17:59	#2217
mcgeezer Registered User Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Sunderland, England Posts: 2,702	If someone can give some viable methods and ideas on how to rygar aga run well on ocs then i’ll open the code after i have fixed the final bugs in the game. When i say viable i mean... 1) the parallax must remain 2) the colours must not suck so that it opens the game (but more so the a500) to negative criticism 3) the action in the game remains relatively the same Dropping the frame rate is an option, but i cannot for the life of me see how to squeeze a 32 colour foreground into 8 colours, i will not look like rygar. Geezer

07 November 2019, 18:07	#2219
DanScott Lemon. / Core Design Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Tier 5 Posts: 1,211	I personally would use a 16 colour screen, using maybe 4 sprites for Rygar player, and 4 sprites for the background parallax... sure the background would have to repeat a little more, but using some colour changes down the screen, it could look pretty good. There are plenty of great 16 colour games out there that (IMHO) look graphically as nice as Rygar arcade. I've spent a few nights over the last few months, converting some various coin-op sprite sets and tile sets to a fixed 16 colour palette, with some good results overall (some better than others)

07 November 2019, 18:08	#2220
sandruzzo Registered User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Italy/Rome Posts: 2,281	We can keep 32 colors, we just need to optimeze blitter usage, and use more tricks for enemies.

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