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#2021 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Warsaw/Poland
Age: 56
Posts: 2,102
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Very funny, if people dont understand that THIS IS NOT 32KB of memory, but this is 32KB of chip memory.
Chip memory is very limited. Its not problem for me, if it will be wasted 32KB of fast memory. But it can not, for MMU it must memory started from 0 address. Every Amiga coder know, that Motorola 68k has 4 bytes direct acceses for first 32KB of memory, via jmp $xx.w or jsr $xx.w. When normally this is 6 bytes direct address via jmp $xxxx or jsr $xxxx. MMU.library wasted/used more than 7MB of fast memory for tables on some Amiga configs. And this is not problem for me. Only a few strange for me, that this is DEFAULT, not OPTIONAL feature, like I heard from this Amiga user. Same strange like kickstart 3.2 authors seems dont know that 68000, 68010 and 68020 CPU has NO MMU. And seems dont know that exist something like CPU detection, and OPTIONAL CODE. This demo of game uses about 1.8MB of chip memory. And perhaps can not works on kick 3.2, because 32KB of chip memory was wasted as DEFAULT. https://www.amigajump.com/ |
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#2022 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,450
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Quote:
Look, if all the Os 3.2 features that take additional RAM is "bloat" for you, then don't use the "bloat". That simple. That Os 3.2 on the cited A500+ takes apparently ~100K of chip ram (and not 24K) is the result of such "bloat" others call "features". You cannot get it right for everyone. Some users request more features, some not. |
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#2023 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Warsaw/Poland
Age: 56
Posts: 2,102
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Quote:
F.e when I was alive, I used FileMaster 2.2 (sometimes 2 copies), CED 3.5, Asmone 1.20, EaglePlayer 1.54d for playing music from chipram. For some mods I see "not enough memory". Of course this is not enough chip memory, not fast memory. And about games this is not true. Almost all games created after 1992 year works under kick 2.0/3.0/3.1. Older can not works mostly due 68020 CPU. |
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#2024 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,450
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Quote:
You can turn that off, so yes, it is optional. You seem to believe that 24K on top if a "loss of a majority of Os users". But that's not the case. It is not a loss nor a problem for a majority, you just want to make it sound so. Actually, it is more a win than a lost as it gets rid of a bad hack, and that makes maintainence simpler and error fixing simpler. That's a win if there are limited development resources. |
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#2025 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Warsaw/Poland
Age: 56
Posts: 2,102
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Quote:
Especially for you: https://www.ppa.pl/forum/amiga/46924...-ram/2#m821759 For A600 with 1MB chip, kick 3.2.2 has less about 36kB of memory available to use. For A500 with 0.5MB chip and 0.5MB slow, kick 3.2.2 has less about 100kB available to use. Differences between kick 2.0 and kick 1.3 is about 49kB. Then for A500 kick 3.2.2 wasted/used 100-49=51kB of memory. About 15kB more than for A600 with same kick 3.2.2 Thanks for infos, that MMU tables can be turned off. And yes, I know that about 8KB of Amiga chip memory can not be allocated. But this memory is used by kickstart. So if kick 3.2 allocated this memory for MMU, then must use other chip memory area. Then this is still 32KB, from my memory 31KB, because first 1KB is unused (except vectors), if I remember right. |
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#2026 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 41
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@ Don_Adan
Why would anyone in their right mind put a 3.2 ROM in an Amiga with only 1MB & no Fast RAM ![]() By the way, no need to blow your Chip RAM playing mod files, just use HippoPlayer. It can load mods into Fast RAM, plus it's been getting plenty of updates lately. |
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#2027 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Salisbury
Posts: 785
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Fair, but that doesn't help you using ProTracker on a real Amiga does it.
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#2028 |
Ex nihilo nihil
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: CH
Posts: 5,130
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#2029 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Finland
Posts: 378
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Quote:
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#2030 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,450
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The questionable design is that of the patch/hack that makes the lowest 32K available for such programs, and I doubt that it matters for the majority of users whether additional 24K become available or not. For those for which it does, there is a tool. The design choice is quite reasonable, and the implementation is straightforward.
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#2031 | |
Ex nihilo nihil
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: CH
Posts: 5,130
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Quote:
Therefore, as you like to reuse at infinity the same arguments even if we have put the dots on the i, I will let you walk alone on this Moebius strip like discussion. |
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#2032 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Berlin
Posts: 56
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It's funny reading this thread helped me solve some problems I had with "emulating" CD32 games on my 1200 with OS 3.2
By softkicking 3.1 I could make Flink run, finally! I'm not sure but I think the issue was with available chip RAM Easy enough to do on an accelerated 1200, so I use 3.2 most of the time, 1.3 and 3.1 when necessary ![]() |
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#2033 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Warsaw/Poland
Age: 56
Posts: 2,102
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Quote:
Thor talk that ONLY 24KB of chip memory is wasted for kick 3.2.2. He is WRONG. Kick 3.2.2 used about 36 kB more chip RAM, when TOTALLY WASTED (allocated and NEVER USED on 68000/68010/68020) is perhaps 31 KB. For 68080 and some CPU detected as 68040 it will be about 27KB of wasted chip memory. Rest (about 5 kB) is perhaps used for new kick 3.2.2 features, but can be bug too, like twice allocation or not free allocated memory problem. Not all Amiga music modules are Protracker mods to be easy enough playable from fast memory. I prefered exotic modules format. And about 10-15 years ago EP 1.54 was for me much better than Hippoplayer. I dont know present time for Hippoplayer. Maybe Hippoplayer is now better than EP 1.54. |
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