01 January 2022, 23:59 | #1 |
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OS3.2 installed using 3.1 roms but failing now that I have 3.2 roms
Got this install done when my amiga 1200 had the 3.1 rom; then I got the 3.2 roms and now when it boot I get an error when it try to execute the line in startup-sequence:
Code:
LoadModule DOWNGRADE I get an object not found, and indeed if I type in amigados the string as in the startup sequence, it does give me the error because it does not know what DOWNGRADE means. I assume that the code was added to the startup sequence only because I did the install using 3.1? Looking at the code seems that the first time it check for exec library, if it is not v47 it does the Code:
loadmodule L:system-startup ROMUPDATE Code:
version strap version 47 Not sure what DOWNGRADE and ROMUPDATE are; those do not look like old school commands; also can't find what strap does and why is it checked in that line. Any help to understand this would be really appreciated; for now I just put back the 3.1 physical roms and the OS boot fine (twice since it need to load the roms in memory); but I would like to understand this code also for the future, if I want to modify the startup sequence. Thanks! |
02 January 2022, 09:39 | #2 |
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I didn't have any issues when I did this myself and things just worked. Using WinUAE, I've just done a base install from the 3.2 CD using the 3.1 ROM and then again with the 3.2 ROM and compared the installations.
In both, the top of the installed Startup-Sequence looks like: Code:
; $VER: Startup-Sequence_HardDrive 47.14 (7.3.2021) ; Startup-Sequence for hard drive systems Version exec.library version 47 >NIL: If Warn LoadModule L:System-Startup ROMUPDATE EndIf SetPatch >NIL: ........ ........ Can you share your full Startup-Sequence as it sounds like it has been modified by something else outside the OS's installed version which is then breaking things? In terms of the installation, all files that are present in both installations are the same (*). There are no different configuration settings between an 3.2 installation made with 3.1 or 3.2 ROMs. (*) Some icon modification time and/or position settings differ, but all tooltypes are the same, so there are no operational changes here. The installation with the 3.1 ROM has extra files in various locations around the filesystem, which aren't present in the installation from the 3.2 ROM. These are essentially the contents of the "Modules" disk. However, these files should match the resident versions physically in the 3.2 ROM and, based upon the Startup-Sequence check, shouldn't be loaded anyway if you already have 3.2 ROMs and will therefore be ignored: Devs audio.device console.device gameport.device input.device keyboard.device ramdrive.device timer.device trackdisk.device L Con-Handler Ram-Handler Shell-Seg Syslog System-startup Libs/A2000A exec.library Libs/A2000B exec.library Libs/Modules bootmenu syscheck Libs/Resournces battclock.resource disk.resource FileSystem.resource Libs/ dos.library gadtools.library graphics.library intuition.library layers.library mathffp.library mathieeesingbas.library utility.library |
02 January 2022, 09:46 | #3 |
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To me it seems that
1. you didn't mention that you did an update to 3.2.1 but your ROM is 3.2, not 3.2.1 2. you have a pre-3.2 version of LoadModule installed. You should use the one which comes with 3.2 or even 3.2.1. DOWNGRADE and ROMUPDATE are keywords of LoadModule. But they are only known since 3.2. LoadModule itself was available from Aminet long before 3.2, but only in recent versions these keywords were added. |
03 January 2022, 22:53 | #4 |
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Thanks Exodus, it looks like your startup is different from mine I just added the echo to debug on screen when each option was picked
I installed 3.2 from CD, then 3.2.1 via ADF using winuae; this is what the top of my startup sequence look like ; $VER: Startup-Sequence_HardDrive 47.16 (18.10.2021) ; Startup-Sequence for hard drive systems Version exec.library version 47 >NIL: If Warn echo "your exec.library is older than V47, patching ROM to 3.2" LoadModule L:System-Startup ROMUPDATE Else Version strap version 47 >NIL: If Warn echo "your exec.library is V47 or newer, no ROM patching" ;LoadModule DOWNGRADE L:Ram-Handler L:Shell-Seg L:System-Startup Libs:dos.library Libs:gadtools.library Libs:graphi EndIf EndIf SetPatch >NIL: |
03 January 2022, 22:56 | #5 | |
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Quote:
Good point; I've got 3.2 rom as physical; although the 3.2.1 roms came as rom file with the update; so you still need loadmodule to load those, so they can match the OS version installed. as far as loadmodule, I didn't install it; this is a 3.2 installation, so anything on this drive is coming from 3.2 installer. Not sure if 3.2.1 updated it or not. Thanks for the explanation about the 2 keywords. I assume that the documentation for the extra keywords are on the 3.2 docs or somewhere else? |
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04 January 2022, 16:24 | #6 |
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I tried to reproduce you issue and I failed (meaning that I didn't have any issues).
I made a WinUAE config with ROM 3.1, installed 3.2, changed ROM to 3.2 and then installed 3.2.1. All went fine. Questions: - did you upgrade 3.1 to 3.2 or did you make a fresh install of 3.2? - did you first change the ROM chip and then install 3.2.1 or vice versa? - Are you sure you never played with an older version of LoadModule? |
09 January 2022, 03:39 | #7 | |
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That is interesting; I didn't try to run a new installation but at this point I am curious. As far as your questions: 1) nope, started with 3.2 from the CD install, and when 3.2.1 came out, I used their installer. The only extra I did install was the betterwb package posted here somewhere (there was a thread, I need to dig in my history to find it); which would install things like whdload, magicwb, MUI and other apps. I would assume that the package does not alter anything in the os beside copying files, but I could be wrong. 2) started with 3.1 roms and used loadmodule to load the 3.2 roms; then swapped the roms to 3.2. Although with 3.2.1 you still need to use loadmodule from my understanding, since there are no 3.2.1 roms yet (and honestly I am not going to burn another set and pay 40 more dollars LOL especially when in 3.2.1 doc there is something saying "we may update the roms again, so don't bother".) I wonder if I should just ditch the 3.2 roms at this point 3) totally sure; when I got 3.2 I started from scratch. I have a different SD card using 3.1 ClassicWB, which is also untouched (it works, why would you touch it?). I just swap SD card when I want to use one environment or the other, although I find myself using more and more 3.2, since it has a lot of nice things out of the box (although can't stand the icons to be honest; I am just used to the magicWB icons since 1991 ) |
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09 January 2022, 22:51 | #8 |
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Interesting thread being some here know I have been fighting two separate 3.2 os/kickstart problems with HD's, either SCSI or IDE and file copy or movement or validation.
And I think I have figured out the problem. Everything was fine UNTIL I introduced another hardware part to the Amiga after installed 3.2 and the 3.2 kickstart. And that other hardware part uses a different device than what the main drives do. i.e., the HD's use FastFileSystem right now, on either IDE or SCSI. But when I add another device that uses a different file system, say FAT95 or something else, all the problems then start. IF I remove that same device and the file system for that device, suddenly everything works again.. no more errors for copying files, no more suddenly non executable exe's etc. Something is not right in KS 3.2 and/or OS 3.2, because I can change back to another OS and KS revision and this problem disappears, as I have said quite a few times as well. The very fact I can not replicate this on 3.1 OS/KS or even back to 2.04, pretty means something is going on with either 3.2ks or 3.2os or both combined. I have tried a network adapter, a SD card reader, a second HD card (scsi and IDE using a different file system) and this is reproduceable every time if KS 3.2 and OS3.2 are in use. It does NOT appear on other setups and they work just fine. The easiest and fastest way I can reproduce this is to use a basic Amiga 2000, KS 3.2 and a small SCSI HD connected to an A2091 (7.0 roms) OR use an AmiKit IDE interface card and either an IDE HD or CF card. Do a full clean install of 3.2. From there, try installing an SDBox and see what happens. Or some other device that uses its own FILE system, not the default for OS3.2. Doing this, I can repro this 100% of the time. Last edited by Malakie; 09 January 2022 at 22:57. |
10 January 2022, 09:57 | #9 |
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AFAIK BetterWB is problematic with 3.1.4 and above. You should rather use BestWB with these OS versions. I don't know if it can cause your issues, though. 3.2.1 ROM images are included in the update archive. If you are able to burn your own ROMs, you should use these. @Malakie you should open your own thread. Your issue is hardware related and completely off-topic here. |
10 January 2022, 17:06 | #10 | |
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Quote:
I know what I am doing, and I am telling you, with all the trial and error, hardware swapping and system changes trying to isolate this, and everything I have posted, the ONLY uniform thing is KS 3.2 and OS 3.2 for this issue. You don't have a now 100% reproducible problem on MULTIPLE systems without something causing it that is common among them all. The ONLY thing common is ks 3.2 and OS 3.2 Now since there is an updated KS apparently, maybe that's the cause, maybe not. If there are also updates to OS 3.2, then perhaps that's the cause. Maybe not. Or maybe it is both combined. But the problem is NOT the hardware. Unless you want to tell me now that all four A2000 systems here that run absolutely perfectly on other OS revisions, are all somehow bad? |
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10 January 2022, 17:33 | #11 | |
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I dunno, maybe these issues simply didn't happen back when I didn't work for CBM. Anyway, I hate to point this out, but there is another common denominator in all these cases .... |
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10 January 2022, 18:11 | #12 | |
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So tell you what mr. expert. Explain 4 different systems using different configurations, all exhibited identical behavior on ONE OS, which happens to be 3.2, kickstart AND OS. Of course it could never be possible that I stumbled across a bug that occurs with a combination of things, perhaps the revisions of either or some step that is happening in the install process, i.e. which I CLEARLY identified and said I can REPRO 100% OF THE TIME. But no, you use a snide remark to throw an insult at me. I don't know maybe you don't like the way I type, but whatever it is, if you don't actually care to help figure it out, than don't bother to post just to throw an insult at someone. And unless someone can explain how it is IMPOSSIBLE for a bug to have been found in KS 3.2 OR WB 3.2 libraries OR a combination of both, then I will continue to troubleshoot it until confirmation of the cause of these issues can be had. I was trained well and one thing I learned. When you can reproduce a bug 100% taking the same steps, well guess what? most likely cause is the items used in the process of reproduction. In this case, and as I ALREADY SAID after a LOT of work, I can reproduce this 100% once I start adding OTHER FILE SYSTEM TYPES for other hardware. It acts like it is somehow reading the wrong file system originally used UNTIL YOU REMOVE that new filesystem library. Now I don't know about you, but if you have two files, one say fastfilesystem and a second say fast95 file system and when you add the second and the problems show up but when you remove it the problems go away, EITHER I have 4 major defective A2000 systems here OR I have stumbled across a bug in the KS OR OS 3.2 or both combined under certain circumstances. Instead of offering suggestions and ideas of how to better confirm this, you just jump in and throw an insult. Instead of maybe trying to reproduce this and help, you jump in and throw an insult. Instead of maybe considering it could be a new bug found by accident or through a means I am using to do this, you throw an insult. Back when I started this chain, I gave my background with CBM Amiga as a means to say I am not a newbie and am playing catchup so I had some questions. But now, apparently, some want to use that as some form of insult for whatever reason. You don't see me running around insulting those people, do you? In fact, some of them have actually offer helpful things to me already that I did not know had changed or was trying to re-learn. I actually WAS trained in both the Amiga systems AND component level repair and troubleshooting. Most people are not and are hobbyists learning as they go. That's what used to make the community great but I am starting to see a whole new side where some seem to think they are the ultimate experts bar none and anyone like me that questions things, is just a threat to their ultimate expert status apparently. I have NEVER said I was such a thing, only explained my background so others would know I am not a newbie or simple hobbyist, rather I do have some actual knowledge. What frustrates me is how some replying, completely ignore the facts as I have posted multiple times. 1) 4 systems, identically reproduced on all 4 using various hardware, the ONLY common factor is KS 3.2 and OS 3.2 TOGETHER. It does not appear to happen when any other OS revision is used. 2) It is clearly not hardware related in terms of SCIS OR IDE drives because it happens on both on different mainboard revisions. 3) I can move the same exact hardware from one unit to the next, and the problem repro's 100% with a CLEAN install of the OS. 4) I have spent weeks now testing back and forth, trying everything people suggested, and asking questions in many places, not just here. (ironically others actually do come up with ideas and suggestions that we then try) 5) I am tired of people defending OS and KS 3.2 as if it is some kind of GOD of OS's and could never be the problem ever. Which of course is ridiculous or there would not be updates being put out apparently. You want to help with ideas and suggestions, by all means. But don't think I am going to shrink back into a little violet when someone comes at me and when some repeat the same damn thing over and over and over because they think anything else could not be even possible or conceivable. No one here is an expert on anything above anyone else. Everyone has ideas, experiences and even training in the area. And some of those, I have called out myself because they are utterly ridiculous on the face. You want to throw more insults, it will get us no where as usual. You want to help, then read what I wrote clearly in many posts about the symptoms, the changes when I made a change, the new updates I have made and offer some suggestions next time. |
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10 January 2022, 20:23 | #13 |
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@Malakie
please post full showconfig report (check out the help system in case you don’t know how to generate it), full system log (enable via bootmenue and grab it from RAM. Start with one machine only. Edit: You need to install the 3.2.1 update to produce the showconfig report |
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10 January 2022, 21:14 | #15 |
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@Malakie
Yep - you're right, it was a low blow and added nothing to help you with your issue in any way. For that I apologise. For the record I am not, nor have ever claimed to be, an expert on the Amiga. I definitely fall into the enthusiastic hobbyist category. This does mean however, that when I post asking for help, and people ask me to run tools to produce output that might help them resolve my problem, I will do it - even if I'm not convinced it's 100% relevant. This is especially true when the people offering help are well known for their detailed knowledge of disk/controller/filesystem setups on the Amiga (thomas), or indeed actually worked on and wrote chunks of the operating system itself as well as many useful tools/libraries etc that interact with it at a low level (Thomas Richter). I won't darken your threads again, as I have nothing constructive to add, but I do hope you find a solution to your issues - and are able to accept the help that actual experts are offering |
10 January 2022, 22:15 | #16 | |
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Thus, I afraid I'm asking this for the forth time, please be so kind and post the output of a couple of programs here. "ShowConfig" is one. Then, please download "Devices" from Aminet: http://aminet.net/dev/misc/Devices.lha run as Code:
devices DH0: You have been asked this so many times, I really wonder what you are up to. Trolling, or asking for help? If you want help, you need to provide information - nobody can read your mind. |
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13 January 2022, 19:48 | #17 |
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I've been having this exact same issue on WinUAE
After some tracing I found that an installer (rather it the 3.2, 3.2.1, or some other package that updates startup-sequence. It truncates this line: Code:
LoadModule DOWNGRADE L:Ram-Handler L:Shell-Seg L:System-Startup Libs:dos.library Libs:gadtools.library Libs:graphi Code:
LoadModule DOWNGRADE L:Ram-Handler L:Shell-Seg L:System-Startup Libs:dos.library Libs:gadtools.library Libs:graphics.library |
15 January 2022, 17:44 | #18 | |
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Quote:
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15 January 2022, 18:06 | #19 |
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The ed text editor that comes with OS3.1 truncates too long lines silently. I would check all used editors how they behave.
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17 January 2022, 12:46 | #20 |
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Guys I have a question.I have an Escom A1200 with 3.1 roms.Do I need 3.2 roms to run the Amiga OS 3.2? A friend of mine told me that with current roms(3.1) I will not have the full potentials of 3.2.Is it true?
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