English Amiga Board - View Single Post - Cyclone 20 - idea for homemade USB-based floppy controller (Catweasel-ish)

mr.vince · 27 November 2008, 12:28

Rich, seems like we're not alone wanting something like this. ;-)

Short preface: Rich did the Cyclone app for the Amiga, I worked at the same company (Cachet) for about three years making parameters for it. I'd be glad to help researching on this. I also have some disks that are still in good condition for testing the product on nasty copy protections.

Concerning images: I think we all want the same... we want to write back disks to play on real silicon. And we of course want to read disks. We can use an own, open source format for this. I think ADF will not do as ADF ist not capable of holding real magnetic flux information (the sampled MFM signal from the drive head). We would need to design something ourselves. I would suggest making one step before making to. First, do a raw MFM container format. This will result in huge images (Rich - 8 MB per image?). This can also be used for writing the data back to disk. I only see on exception from the rule, which would be weak bits, which could be solved by allowing track duplicates of MFM data. So if track 0, side 1, has known weak bits, read it 3-5 times and store them. Step two would be designing something like IPF, but open source, with the intention of adding a descriptive language like FreeForm (as used by Trace machines) to reduce the amount of disk space used by the images.

Concerning IPF: This format is for preservation. I don't see any need to write to it. I assume all we want is to extract or convert the data and feed it into our format for writing back to disk. Maybe the guys are open minded and even like the approach we're taking. If have asked Ville9 from Softpres to comment on this. Maybe in the end, everyone could do dumps using the hardware we're going to build, send the raw image over to Softpres and have it archived using their analyzer. Maybe we could also share code. We'll see. I really appreciate all the work Softpres has done so far.

From what I have been reading in the docs, everything for regenerating magentic flux should be there. At least WinUAE can read all it needs from, and Softpres claims it preserves everything needed. So... yes, I assume we should be able to make a copier that will transform and IPF back to magnetic flux.

For us living in Europe: I guess that when development of the main hardware is over, we want to have some custom made PCB to cut down costs and to make this thing fit into some case so the casual user does not destroy it by shortening connections etc. Since 2006 any maker of electronics has to recycle them. This ROHS thing basically costs some grand to get approved because you have to make some kind of safety deposit in case you ever go bankrupt. I am not sure about this, BUT I recommend we start (now... or soon...) finding someone who already has this licence and can supply us with the PCBs. I am not sure if Jens Schoenfeld will be interested or if he sees this as malicious competition. I *think* I'd be glad having Jens in there. He could contribute to the software and he could sell the hardware here in Europe, even though the design is open source.

Concerning 9pin in... good idea, we should include support for joysticks and gamepads.

Ok, just some thoughts...

Where do we start? Rich, can any one of us do anything to help right now? I mean, would it be of any help if I start getting the same breadboard, so I could do parallel work and testing over here?

Best,
Chris

27 November 2008, 12:28	#17
mr.vince Cheesy crust Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hawk's Creek Age: 48 Posts: 1,383	Rich, seems like we're not alone wanting something like this. ;-) Short preface: Rich did the Cyclone app for the Amiga, I worked at the same company (Cachet) for about three years making parameters for it. I'd be glad to help researching on this. I also have some disks that are still in good condition for testing the product on nasty copy protections. Concerning images: I think we all want the same... we want to write back disks to play on real silicon. And we of course want to read disks. We can use an own, open source format for this. I think ADF will not do as ADF ist not capable of holding real magnetic flux information (the sampled MFM signal from the drive head). We would need to design something ourselves. I would suggest making one step before making to. First, do a raw MFM container format. This will result in huge images (Rich - 8 MB per image?). This can also be used for writing the data back to disk. I only see on exception from the rule, which would be weak bits, which could be solved by allowing track duplicates of MFM data. So if track 0, side 1, has known weak bits, read it 3-5 times and store them. Step two would be designing something like IPF, but open source, with the intention of adding a descriptive language like FreeForm (as used by Trace machines) to reduce the amount of disk space used by the images. Concerning IPF: This format is for preservation. I don't see any need to write to it. I assume all we want is to extract or convert the data and feed it into our format for writing back to disk. Maybe the guys are open minded and even like the approach we're taking. If have asked Ville9 from Softpres to comment on this. Maybe in the end, everyone could do dumps using the hardware we're going to build, send the raw image over to Softpres and have it archived using their analyzer. Maybe we could also share code. We'll see. I really appreciate all the work Softpres has done so far. From what I have been reading in the docs, everything for regenerating magentic flux should be there. At least WinUAE can read all it needs from, and Softpres claims it preserves everything needed. So... yes, I assume we should be able to make a copier that will transform and IPF back to magnetic flux. For us living in Europe: I guess that when development of the main hardware is over, we want to have some custom made PCB to cut down costs and to make this thing fit into some case so the casual user does not destroy it by shortening connections etc. Since 2006 any maker of electronics has to recycle them. This ROHS thing basically costs some grand to get approved because you have to make some kind of safety deposit in case you ever go bankrupt. I am not sure about this, BUT I recommend we start (now... or soon...) finding someone who already has this licence and can supply us with the PCBs. I am not sure if Jens Schoenfeld will be interested or if he sees this as malicious competition. I think I'd be glad having Jens in there. He could contribute to the software and he could sell the hardware here in Europe, even though the design is open source. Concerning 9pin in... good idea, we should include support for joysticks and gamepads. Ok, just some thoughts... Where do we start? Rich, can any one of us do anything to help right now? I mean, would it be of any help if I start getting the same breadboard, so I could do parallel work and testing over here? Best, Chris Last edited by mr.vince; 27 November 2008 at 12:29. Reason: typo. but enough of them still in there.