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-   -   How to create "modern" effects in oldskool tracker modules (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=106373)

MisthaLu 28 March 2021 06:58

Just pocket money. It's definitely not like I'm making a living off of it. :)

The real money is in project work of course, but I rarely do those due to lack of time and interest. It has to be a really interesting project then. I'd rather do my own tracks in my own time, how I want and when I want, and then just offer those.
My theory is, that no matter what genre or mood or even filetype you make, someone out there will find it useful for their project at some point. And I think this has been confirmed, looking at requests I've had even for tracks I thought no one would ever be interested in.

Sometimes I get a request for a track only a few days after putting it online. Other times it takes a whole year before someone shows any interest.

But it's always nice to earn some pocket money from one's hobby, and it does add up over the years. To be honest I'm rather hesitant about turning it into a job. I fear I'll lose the interest then. It has to remain a hobby.

MisthaLu 30 March 2021 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by saimon69 (Post 1473300)
Plus good'ol Amiga machines did not have mixing so to make sound effects either is needed some software mixing (takes CPU time) or some channel need to be left free, usually one more rarely two.


I'm noticing you seem to mostly use only 2 channels. Sometimes channel 1 and 2. But mostly channel 3 and 4 it seems. Any speical reason for using channel 3 and 4 instead of 1 and 2?


I sometimes make 3-channel versions of my tracks too, to leave channel 4 free for sound effects.

saimon69 30 March 2021 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisthaLu (Post 1473964)
I'm noticing you seem to mostly use only 2 channels. Sometimes channel 1 and 2. But mostly channel 3 and 4 it seems. Any speical reason for using channel 3 and 4 instead of 1 and 2?

Well in example on Amos games is not easily possible on which channel to output so sound plays on default channels 0 and 1; same for Blitz and Assembly if not directly specified by the coder.
If the game expects in example two players keeping two channels free will increase immersivity, like in those songs i made for an attempted port of Final Fight
Final Fight Stage 1_3

However the choice of doing lot of two channel music is also because i loved how Martin Iveson did miracles with two channels only in the Wolfchild soundtrack and wanted to follow its tracks
Wolfchild

MisthaLu 30 March 2021 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by saimon69 (Post 1473967)
Well in example on Amos games is not easily possible on which channel to output so sound plays on default channels 0 and 1; same for Blitz and Assembly if not directly specified by the coder.


I see, that's useful info.
So both AMOS and Blitz Basic doesn't allow the coder to decide which channels to use for sound effects? That's a bit surprising (and disappointing). But good to know.

roondar 30 March 2021 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by saimon69 (Post 1473967)
Well in example on Amos games is not easily possible on which channel to output so sound plays on default channels 0 and 1; same for Blitz and Assembly if not directly specified by the coder.

I'm not sure I understood this correctly, but just to point it out: assembly doesn't have any default channels to play back sound. The coder always has full control. In fact, unless extra effort is made in the playback routine (such as in PHX's music player with support for sound effects) coders must select the channels to use themselves and are fully free to choose any channel combination for SFX.

Cobe 30 March 2021 18:16

You can also freely chose a channel in Blitz.

But I guess that some effects dont sound totally the same on both pair of channels couse as I read recently here, channels have some minor non uniform delays between them.

Few months ago I also made a test mod where I used 2 samples, one with hi pass, one with low pass, while pumping the ones volume I was decreasing the others volume, and vice versa, so I got the effect like you're playing with eq potentiometers.
But you have something similar(or its the same) covered already.

MisthaLu 30 March 2021 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobe (Post 1474048)
But I guess that some effects dont sound totally the same on both pair of channels couse as I read recently here, channels have some minor non uniform delays between them.


This is what I'm hearing here and there - minor non uniform delays between channels cause certain tricks to not work. That's why I'm testing this, and why I created this thread.
My findings so far though is that it seems to only apply to Protracker 3.61 (and presumable Protracker 3.15). All other players tested does not have any delays between channels. If they did, tricks like the 14-bit quality, and creating high/low pass using inversion samples wouldn't work. They require precise timing.

Cobe 30 March 2021 19:49

I have no doubts that there are differences between software but I was refering to one of the 14+bit threads that were active here not so long ago where guys actually measured the delays between channels that are not software but hardware related.

saimon69 30 March 2021 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobe (Post 1474048)
You can also freely chose a channel in Blitz.

But I guess that some effects dont sound totally the same on both pair of channels couse as I read recently here, channels have some minor non uniform delays between them.

Few months ago I also made a test mod where I used 2 samples, one with hi pass, one with low pass, while pumping the ones volume I was decreasing the others volume, and vice versa, so I got the effect like you're playing with eq potentiometers.
But you have something similar(or its the same) covered already.

Had issues with some coders not knowing on how to allocate channels [they don't know how to] so i try to keep the most used free

MisthaLu 31 March 2021 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobe (Post 1474060)
I have no doubts that there are differences between software but I was refering to one of the 14+bit threads that were active here not so long ago where guys actually measured the delays between channels that are not software but hardware related.


Does this mean that a certain software player will produce different audible results on different Amigas? Meaning, the 14-bit trick might work on one Amiga but not the other, despite using the exact same software?

saimon69 31 March 2021 22:34

Sometimes the channel allocation fails to work, though, as seen in this facebook post
Amiga BlitzBasic & AmiBlitz - facebook

Cobe 31 March 2021 22:35

I dont think so cause Paula never changed.

Here's the thread https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=105744
Its long and measures are burried somewhere on those pages.

Cobe 31 March 2021 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by saimon69 (Post 1474280)
Sometimes the channel allocation fails to work, though, as seen in this facebook post
Amiga BlitzBasic & AmiBlitz - facebook

Requests to join in... I dont have fb however...
Built in replayers are buggy but phx's one is pretty good.

saimon69 31 March 2021 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobe (Post 1474282)
Requests to join in... I dont have fb however...
Built in replayers are buggy but phx's one is pretty good.

Yup, had a little issue with proper E6x command replay for another game but got fixed

MisthaLu 11 April 2021 07:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by saimon69 (Post 1473300)
Plus good'ol Amiga machines did not have mixing so to make sound effects either is needed some software mixing (takes CPU time) or some channel need to be left free, usually one more rarely two.


I have added a search tag on IndieGameMusic.com now called "Has room for sound-effects", used for MOD and chip music to indicate that either a channel or two is left completely free, or else that a channel or two can be interrupted for sound-effects without ruining the music. Should be useful for gamedevs on the old platforms to be able to include in their search.



I tried making my latest track in a way so channel 4 can be interrupted for sfx. And also made a version only 83 kb big. https://indiegamemusic.com/5098

ColinEllison 25 May 2021 11:02

Thank you for sharing some very good examples that work in real life. To be honest, I tried everything many years ago, but I like the inversion trick more than the others. By the way, I noticed that royalty free sound effects for commercial use are so often used in this area, especially for MOD. Sound effects are useful to apply to make the sound cleaner, without noise. However, I also tried some effects that ruined my music, which I couldn't restore. One thing I understood for sure: it is impossible to write a good track without using sound effects, but you need to be able to apply them correctly.


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