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-   -   Vampire V4 Standalone (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=105254)

SuperFuryAnimal 04 January 2021 16:53

Vampire V4 Standalone
 
Does anyone have one of these?? How do they compare to real amigas??


Little tempted by one, price has me concerned as they seem to be many beer tokens.


Would like to have a 'real amiga' set up again and after finding my old A1200 i think i need a new option. My A1200 would need a substantial amount of work to get it upto working condition.

DanyPPC 04 January 2021 17:11

V4 Standalone is like a super Amiga Classic with a capable 160Mips CPU (SysInfo 4).
There is a compatibility list for USB keyboards and mouse. You can install all Amiga OSes and new ApolloOS.

Compatibility is growing month by month, because actually there are games that have problems.

Perhaps if you own an A1200 you could buy a V1200 which has less problems with games.

V4 is a new project for an Amiga Classic with a Super AGA chipset and 8 audio channels. If you are looking for a system like this and can live with constant updates to improve compatibility then it's your perfect choice.

Steril707 04 January 2021 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperFuryAnimal (Post 1450675)
Does anyone have one of these?? How do they compare to real amigas??

Obviously the "nostalgy" factor is quite minimized on those. It's just a board with some connectors..

Have you looked into other options?

The Raspi400 plus Pimiga doesn't look too bad, imo...

SuperFuryAnimal 04 January 2021 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steril707 (Post 1450681)
Obviously the "nostalgy" factor is quite minimized on those. It's just a board with some connectors..

Have you looked into other options?

The Raspi400 plus Pimiga doesn't look too bad, imo...


Yeah ive got a Pi400 and put a Pimiga v1.4 image on it after buying some roms and its ok but it needs work as a true amiga, its getting there but its not for me in its current state

Steril707 04 January 2021 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperFuryAnimal (Post 1450682)
Yeah ive got a Pi400 and put a Pimiga v1.4 image on it after buying some roms and its ok but it needs work as a true amiga, its getting there but its not for me in its current state

In what way will the Vampire4 be a more true Amiga to you?

Just asking... ;)

SuperFuryAnimal 04 January 2021 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steril707 (Post 1450684)
In what way will the Vampire4 be a more true Amiga to you?

Just asking... ;)


It'll be standalone dedicated machine i can setup and use similar to how i used to have my amiga. I dont want something i just plugin the tv to use when i want to game or watch demos.


Want to get the feel i had from the 90's when i had my A1200 really

grond 04 January 2021 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperFuryAnimal (Post 1450675)
Does anyone have one of these?? How do they compare to real amigas??

My V4 is small and in an acrylic case while the V1200-powered A1200 next to it is much bigger and beige. :D

OK, now seriously: the V4 on the one hand and V2-equipped Amigas on the other mostly differ from each other in that the V4 has a not-yet-perfect AGA reimplementation while the original AGA is, of course, perfect AGA. If you want to run old Amiga software, the V4 can only approximate an original Amiga's compatibility. The V4 is more of a work-in-progress than the V2 series of Vampires because the CPU part both have in common is pretty much complete and work now concentrates on the chipset reimplementation in the V4.

On the plus side the V4 has 16 (?) MB of chipmem available even to old applications while AGA generally is capped at 2MB. The V4 is not slowed down by chipmem (its "chipmem" reaches hundreds of MB/s speed). The V4 has 512MB of RAM while the V2 comes with 128MB. Both is plenty for most Amiga uses (I used to have 8MB on my Blizzard 1230 which also was a lot in ~1995).

All Vampires are very, very fast for Amiga-standards (but obviously very, very slow for 2021 PC-standards). They are faster than any overclocked 060-equipped system. It depends on what you are going to use your Amiga for whether this comes as a pro or con. If you only want to play old games that ran well on an unexpanded A500 or A1200, the speed is often more of a problem than helpful as it may lead to all sorts of unwanted side effects in games that were coded when nobody imagined CPUs in the 100s MHz speed range. If you want to run a highres Workbench from harddisk (or rather CF card), 060 AGA and RTG demos, some ports of PC games such as Doom, Quake or Diablo, then the Vampires are a very good choice.

The Vampires do not have a 68k-compatible MMU if you are into coding and debugging on the target machine.

The V4 has some extensions to the graphics and sound chipset like 16bit audio, extended sprites, copper in chunky displays and probably more I forgot. These extensions may or may not be used by new software. The custom chips in the A1200, of course, remain unaltered by the V1200 although there are plans to port back the enhanced chipset functionality from the V4 once that is complete.

Personally I like the V1200-A1200 better than the V4 because it is my original Amiga with a very powerful accelerator including graphics card functionality. It looks and even smells like an Amiga. The V4 does get a lot of use though since my children use it to play Amiga games (when I let them).


Quote:

Would like to have a 'real amiga' set up again and after finding my old A1200 i think i need a new option. My A1200 would need a substantial amount of work to get it upto working condition.
Please do that work on your A1200 or give it to somebody who will do that work regardless of your purchase decision. The number of Amigas in working condition can only get lower and if you do not recap it, it will inevitably die a cruel death eaten by leaking acid.

SuperFuryAnimal 04 January 2021 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by grond (Post 1450687)
My V4 is small and in an acrylic case while the V1200-powered A1200 next to it is much bigger and beige. :D

OK, now seriously: the V4 on the one hand and V2-equipped Amigas on the other mostly differ from each other in that the V4 has a not-yet-perfect AGA reimplementation while the original AGA is, of course, perfect AGA. If you want to run old Amiga software, the V4 can only approximate an original Amiga's compatibility. The V4 is more of a work-in-progress than the V2 series of Vampires because the CPU part both have in common is pretty much complete and work now concentrates on the chipset reimplementation in the V4.

On the plus side the V4 has 16 (?) MB of chipmem available even to old applications while AGA generally is capped at 2MB. The V4 is not slowed down by chipmem (its "chipmem" reaches hundreds of MB/s speed). The V4 has 512MB of RAM while the V2 comes with 128MB. Both is plenty for most Amiga uses (I used to have 8MB on my Blizzard 1230 which also was a lot in ~1995).

All Vampires are very, very fast for Amiga-standards (but obviously very, very slow for 2021 PC-standards). They are faster than any overclocked 060-equipped system. It depends on what you are going to use your Amiga for whether this comes as a pro or con. If you only want to play old games that ran well on an unexpanded A500 or A1200, the speed is often more of a problem than helpful as it may lead to all sorts of unwanted side effects in games that were coded when nobody imagined CPUs in the 100s MHz speed range. If you want to run a highres Workbench from harddisk (or rather CF card), 060 AGA and RTG demos, some ports of PC games such as Doom, Quake or Diablo, then the Vampires are a very good choice.

The Vampires do not have a 68k-compatible MMU if you are into coding and debugging on the target machine.

The V4 has some extensions to the graphics and sound chipset like 16bit audio, extended sprites, copper in chunky displays and probably more I forgot. These extensions may or may not be used by new software. The custom chips in the A1200, of course, remain unaltered by the V1200 although there are plans to port back the enhanced chipset functionality from the V4 once that is complete.

Personally I like the V1200-A1200 better than the V4 because it is my original Amiga with a very powerful accelerator including graphics card functionality. It looks and even smells like an Amiga. The V4 does get a lot of use though since my children use it to play Amiga games (when I let them).




Please do that work on your A1200 or give it to somebody who will do that work regardless of your purchase decision. The number of Amigas in working condition can only get lower and if you do not recap it, it will inevitably die a cruel death eaten by leaking acid.




Excellent write up there, thanks, plenty of food for thought.


I think ill sit down and work out a A1200 resto price with a V2 and see what works best for me

kipper2k 04 January 2021 17:51

A Pi4 running Amiga is the same as a V4. it is an emulator. It is not an A1200. if you want the Amiga experience then buy an Amiga. If you want an Emulator then compare prices and features for the emulators

Steril707 04 January 2021 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperFuryAnimal (Post 1450685)
Want to get the feel i had from the 90's when i had my A1200 really

Definitely get some work done on your 1200 and get the V1200.
Have the same combo, and it works amazing...

You will love it.

grond 04 January 2021 17:59

Oh, and with any Vampire you will get a lot of drama on online forums when you mention it and lots of "it's not an Amiga" BS for free.

I forgot to mention that the V4 includes ethernet.

kipper2k 04 January 2021 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by grond (Post 1450698)
Oh, and with any Vampire you will get a lot of drama on online forums when you mention it and lots of "it's not an Amiga" BS for free.

I forgot to mention that the V4 includes ethernet.

I prefer to stay with the facts personally. The other derivatives also have internet options

dreadnought 04 January 2021 18:14

B...b...but FPGA is "hardware simulation"? *trollface*

I find these kinda threads very metaphysically enjoyable. It's a pity they invariably end up in flames, because people can't take these arguments lightheartedly ;)

SuperFuryAnimal 04 January 2021 18:16

Its 2021, anyone can enjoy the amiga anyway that works for them

d4rk3lf 04 January 2021 18:17

It really depends on your personal preferences (lot's of various preferences).

Some people likes playing 3D games on Amiga (Doom, Quake, Duke...), some like good old A500 games, some like to watch demo's, and some like to render in Lightwave, or create music... etc
(and combination of the above).

In your place, I'd try and make that A1200 totally working (there's awesome hardware subforum here), and would just bought it some cheap extensions so I can use CF card and WHDLoad preinstalled games.
With Above, you cover like 95% all created for Amiga, in authentic experience. :)

Now, after a while, and if you feel you're up to (much) faster Amiga, you can consider options like Vampire V2, Warp, Aca, and other accelerators... or Vampire standalone (where your Amiga 1200 would stay as it is for old/school stuff), and Vampire for some new stuff... or Rosebery Pi (cheapest solution of all).

kipper2k 04 January 2021 18:22

my option for a non amiga is a Pi400 with an arcade image that has amiberry, lots of ADFs with Pimaga also running on it. My most used Amiga is an Amiga 500+ running a 8GB SD card. To each their own, whatever floats your boat

Radertified 04 January 2021 18:23

There's a lot of controversy behind Vampire. I won't get into that. I have no personal experience with it but it's definitely an extremely fast Amiga-like machine. However, it's pricey.

Getting an Amiga 1200 these days is hit-and-miss when it comes to price. Retro is in so prices are up. Not to mention recapping, upgrades, etc. Again, we're getting into the pricey territory.

Emulation works extremely well. WinUAE, FS-UAE, Amiberry, etc. You've probably already got the hardware (PC, Pi, etc) so this is essentially a free way of getting into things, but it doesn't have that Amiga feel.

Which leaves us with the MiSTer/Minimig FPGA solutions. It's not as powerful as a Vampire, but if you're just in it for that true Amiga feeling, this is probably the route you want. It's open source and gives you get a very fast 68020 + RAM solution that instantly switches on (almost like a regular Amiga) and the option of using original joysticks if you get that upgrade. It's pricey, but not as pricey as a Vampire. There's plenty of information online about it, as well as a multitude of videos on YouTube explaining how to get setup.

kipper2k 04 January 2021 18:29

The Pi400 running Pimiga has a score of about 360,000 dhrystones so it is probably the fastest option. (unless someone knows of faster?). The cost of the Pi400 is less than $100 Cad so pricewise very nice. I don't know what the other prices are for alternatives. Maybe someone can create a table showing features to give people an idea of what features are for each platform

TuKo 04 January 2021 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by kipper2k (Post 1450693)
A Pi4 running Amiga is the same as a V4. it is an emulator. It is not an A1200. if you want the Amiga experience then buy an Amiga. If you want an Emulator then compare prices and features for the emulators


Dave Haynie tends to disagree :
" The Vampire team CPU and Chipset innovations are truly in the same innovation spirit of the original Amiga inventors. Making the Vampire an Amiga which the original team would have designed too. "

kipper2k 04 January 2021 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by TuKo (Post 1450714)
Dave Haynie tends to disagree :
" The Vampire team CPU and Chipset innovations are truly in the same innovation spirit of the original Amiga inventors. Making the Vampire an Amiga which the original team would have designed too. "

name dropping does not change the facts. I think people can see the differences. Put them side by side. The V4 is in the same class as mister and pi


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