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English Amiga Board (https://eab.abime.net/index.php)
-   Amiga scene (https://eab.abime.net/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   P96 Licensing Status (https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=82753)

wawa 23 May 2016 13:31
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh (Post 1090963)
The solution if deadlock occurs is to open source the hardware design API's with a low level library and let P96 drivers for that FPGA gfx card appear out of the ether that is the internet?

;)
these is different ways to go around it. and there is a number of projects that could be affected. some sane, fair and genral solution would be most welcome for all, i sense.

idrougge 23 May 2016 13:35
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlafSch (Post 1090737)
Then you have only one chance if you control the software that your competition needs to gain full power. You can then even destroy competing products by giving no licenses or make them very expensive.
Do tell us who has done that.

OlafSch 23 May 2016 13:37
Quote:
Originally Posted by idrougge (Post 1090972)
Do tell us who has done that.
you are clever I guess you can imagine what are the candidates

springycz 23 May 2016 14:44
In this case candidates were derived from Candida which can also be pretty nasty...

kolla 23 May 2016 15:24
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmsj (Post 1090954)
The Open Compute Project has investors, but no profit. It doesn't exist to make profit, it's not a product.
What do you mean "no profit" - the entire concept is about maximizing profit! OCP is a whole range of products, from a whole range of providers.

kolla 23 May 2016 15:26
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShK (Post 1090951)
Awesome, I may get myself one of those :)

cmsj 23 May 2016 15:39
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolla (Post 1090993)
What do you mean "no profit" - the entire concept is about maximizing profit! OCP is a whole range of products, from a whole range of providers.
OCP is run by a non-profit foundation. There certainly are providers who supply the OCP designs as for-profit products, but you can be sure that anyone who is deploying OCP hardware at scale, is using contract manufacturing.

You'd only go to HP to buy OCP hardware if you are doing it because your CTO/CIO thinks it's cool.

At the kind of scale we're talking about for Amiga hardware, anyone trying to make a little money from hardware, would be foolish to open source their designs. However, it's also more likely that you have people doing hardware for fun, who aren't motivated by profit and are prepared to open everything (e.g. mntmn)

daxb 24 May 2016 00:52
I just want to notice it again. Don`t take the stuff written on a1k.org serious because the most posts are guesswork, wrong, attacks and meanings based on prejudices. wawa and OlafSch are part of that.

emufan 24 May 2016 01:06
Quote:
Originally Posted by daxb (Post 1091100)
I just want to notice it again. Don`t take the stuff written on a1k.org serious because the most posts are guesswork, wrong, attacks and meanings based on prejudices. wawa and OlafSch are part of that.
and why do you come here and make accusations against both you named?
Do you think the Individual Jens Schoenfled aka ICOMP, aka the saviour of the amiga community needs this kind of support?
most here are old enough to understand what he was or IS trying to do.

OlafSch 24 May 2016 10:22
Quote:
Originally Posted by daxb (Post 1091100)
I just want to notice it again. Don`t take the stuff written on a1k.org serious because the most posts are guesswork, wrong, attacks and meanings based on prejudices. wawa and OlafSch are part of that.
<br />
<br />
you are our hero

to make you happy I will more and more retreat from amiga community. People like you and others get exactly what they deserve so live with it. For me looking from someone living and working in 2016 it is looking more and more obscure anyway.

Lord Aga 24 May 2016 11:20
Quote:
Originally Posted by daxb (Post 1091100)
I just want to notice it again. Don`t take the stuff written on a1k.org serious because the most posts are guesswork, wrong, attacks and meanings based on prejudices. wawa and OlafSch are part of that.
Why don't you tell us the truth then ?

I only see people who want to do, make, create something (this includes wawa and OlafSch, and many others of course). And people who want to stop that (armchair lawyers, licence vultures...).

OlafSch 24 May 2016 11:33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Aga (Post 1091144)
Why don't you tell us the truth then ?

I only see people who want to do, make, create something (this includes wawa and OlafSch, and many others of course). And people who want to stop that (armchair lawyers, licence vultures...).
most users obviously want it how it is otherwise they would think different. Whoever buys P96 will not buy it for charity but to make profit. Depending on the person/company there might even be strategic/political reasons to do it. None of this is primarly to make users happy, it is simply business. Clever boys like Daxb with their obviously superior knowledge and experience knows what is good so when they want it they will exactly get what they deserve, perhaps even more than they asked for. But that is not my problem anymore.

ptyerman 24 May 2016 12:27
I must admit, with everything that's going on in Amiga land lately, I feel like throwing in the towel and walking away/selling up. Think I'll take a back seat for a while and see how things pan out.
This whole thing just stinks of greed and sour grapes from certain people, about time certain folk started growing up!

majsta 24 May 2016 13:13
I m for an option to keep all legal. After all everyone should get credit for hard work and all licenses should be paid. But after all blackmails I got I have no idea anymore who owns what, what is legit and what company/group represent what piece of software. After months of talking all is more and more confusing and this is becoming nothing more than:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordian_Knot
Read complete wiki article please :)

OlafSch 24 May 2016 13:17
Quote:
Originally Posted by majsta (Post 1091163)
I m for an option to keep all legal. After all everyone should get credit for hard work and all licenses should be paid. But after all blackmails I got I have no idea anymore who owns what, what is legit and what company/group represent what piece of software. After months of talking all is more and more confusing and this is becoming nothing more than:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordian_Knot
Read complete wiki article please :)
do you have a sword? :)

OlafSch 24 May 2016 13:20
Quote:
Originally Posted by majsta (Post 1091163)
I m for an option to keep all legal. After all everyone should get credit for hard work and all licenses should be paid. But after all blackmails I got I have no idea anymore who owns what, what is legit and what company/group represent what piece of software. After months of talking all is more and more confusing and this is becoming nothing more than:&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br />
&amp;lt;a href=&amp;quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordian_Knot&amp;quot; target=&amp;quot;_blank&amp;quot;&amp;gt;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordian_Knot&amp;lt;/a&amp;gt;&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br />
Read complete wiki article please &amp;lt;img src=&amp;quot;images/smilies/smile.gif&amp;quot; border=&amp;quot;0&amp;quot; alt=&amp;quot;&amp;quot; title=&amp;quot;Smile&amp;quot; smilieid=&amp;quot;1&amp;quot; class=&amp;quot;inlineimg&amp;quot; /&amp;gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br />
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br />
the problem is amiga market was very amateurish in legal sense. Many known companies only sold products but the copyright stayed at the developers. Then the amiga market collapsed and both the companies and the developers left. Now it is difficult to even find the copyright owners at all (former amiga developers, partly several) or they even block for strategical reasons. In other cases it was done only half legal. To avoid all that you would need a clean start avoiding all those old software but users obviously do not want that. So be it... they have to live with the consequences

wawa 24 May 2016 13:52
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlafSch (Post 1091164)
do you have a sword? :)
we have to do with a lesser problem than alexander, sharp kitchen knife might suffice.

wawa 24 May 2016 13:58
ideally a cooperation on them problem as proposed by heiroglyph should be undertaken. because i see all kinds of independent attempts to solve this, each going it own way. instead the interested parties would best come off coordinatin their approach rather than doubling and trippling work and coming to independent incompatible halfway solutions.

i mean here:
apollo tam
fpga arcade
aros?
mist
mntmn
a1k members concerned about similar projects like ratte and mazze..
..others?

daxb 24 May 2016 14:47
Quote:
Originally Posted by emufan (Post 1091105)
and why do you come here and make accusations against both you named?
They are both just examples. There are some more but the mentioned users wrote (propagandize) here. Maybe my fault to name. Just take it as a notice, nothing more. Agree/belive it or not. Your decision.

Quote:
Do you think the Individual Jens Schoenfled aka ICOMP, aka the saviour of the amiga community needs this kind of support?
I don`t speculate about him or his intents. I don`t know him. I don`t know if he is an evil or not. I don`t judge or defend (on speculations). And last I don`t talking about Jens, Hyperion (or how they are called), FPGA builder, P96, CGX and other persons involved. I`m talking about "discussion" style. So, maybe that is just an misunderstanding.

@OlafSch:
Thanks! Always wanted to be a hero. :)

I guess people have different opinions about what Amiga "community" is or how it should be. I wouldn`t count/interpret to much on the word "community". Who tells you who is part of the "community" or not. Or how he/she should behave. Sooner or later everybody will say that isn`t the "community" I like or want to be a part of because it differs too much from the own definition. Hence it is sometimes not good or wrong to use the word "community" because it push misunderstandings. During reading the thread on a1k.org I also thought if this is the "community" I won`t be part of it. If you would retreat it sure wouldn`t make me happy. I`ve no personal antipathy to you.

OlafSch 24 May 2016 15:03
Quote:
Originally Posted by daxb (Post 1091189)
They are both just examples. There are some more but the mentioned users wrote (propagandize) here. Maybe my fault to name. Just take it as a notice, nothing more. Agree/belive it or not. Your decision.


I don`t speculate about him or his intents. I don`t know him. I don`t know if he is an evil or not. I don`t judge or defend (on speculations). And last I don`t talking about Jens, Hyperion (or how they are called), FPGA builder, P96, CGX and other persons involved. I`m talking about "discussion" style. So, maybe that is just an misunderstanding.

@OlafSch:
Thanks! Always wanted to be a hero. :)

I guess people have different opinions about what Amiga "community" is or how it should be. I wouldn`t count/interpret to much on the word "community". Who tells you who is part of the "community" or not. Or how he/she should behave. Sooner or later everybody will say that isn`t the "community" I like or want to be a part of because it differs too much from the own definition. Hence it is sometimes not good or wrong to use the word "community" because it push misunderstandings. During reading the thread on a1k.org I also thought if this is the "community" I won`t be part of it. If you would retreat it sure wouldn`t make me happy. I`ve no personal antipathy to you.
if somebody cites me as a bad example then it is not unpersonal. My motivation to become involved was that there is a open platform that makes it possible to get rid of all the problems from the past. At the time I started I was more or less the only one but thought that the advantages are so obvious that I finally will convince most users and developers. Today it is obvious that this will never happen, the community (people still involved in one way or another) are mostly living in the past and will never move to something else, how superior it might be and be it only for naming. They want the old components like OS and P96 so they shall get them... of course having no competition will lead to high prices but as I wrote no longer my problem. We have a phrase here: "Man kann die Pferde zur Tränke führen, saufen müssen sie selbst." meaning you can offer something but not force others. I offered but the others not accepted it. So be it. For me a big win of time I can use more productive with professional software on professional OS. I will look at the situation from time to time and remind people what they have written before and have to blame themselves (or simply just look and enjoy :) ).


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