Making images of non-880K disks

TikTok · 18 August 2001, 19:26

I knows its not possible to make adf files from non-DOS disks (which can't be accessed from Workbench), but what about those disks which aren't OFS or FFS, but for which a device exists in the devs drawer? For example, the Diskspare device (DS0) which was used on a lot of Amiga User International coverdisks allowed 980K on a disk. It seems to be that since you can mount these disks under workbench and access their contents, there must be a way to make a disk image of them.....but adf files only hold the 880K of a normal FFS disk. Now I'm confused.

Can somebody please tell me whether I'm talking nonsense or not?

Akira · 18 August 2001, 21:24

Tiktok, who told you you can;t make ADF files out of NDOS disks? You surely can! You just can't make normal ADF files out of COPY-PROTECTED disks. If the disks are unprotected (like all cracks) you can make ADFs out of them, wether or not they are DOS...

As for those other devices, I really have no clue. Perhaps Codetapper can help you out

If you have one of these DS0: disks try to image them, I bet they can be imaged UNLESS they are copy-protected.. I have an AUI disk, but it's a normal disk with all its files LHA'ed.

Twistin'Ghost · 18 August 2001, 21:43

Yeah, I would suggest trying to image a DS0 disk, then installing the device on your emulated HD/OS, then try reading it there from the shell or WB (or Opus).

TikTok · 19 August 2001, 01:27

Akira: Sorry, my mistake...I meant to say copy protected disks but for some reason equated non-DOS with copy protected. Doh.

I made an image of a diskspare disk just before I posted...the image was created ok, but it couldn't be read in the emulator. When I "inserted" the adf and mounted the diskspare device, the cli command simply didn't return....it didn't hang, but I had to eventually ctrl-c it to stop it. I have an exact copy of my Amiga's harddisk on my PC, so that isn't the problem. Thing is, diskspare disks can hold over 900K of data using the normal 80 tracks, but the adf created was still 880K in size. I used the command "transdis >disk.adf -d diskspare.device 0" btw. I've seen adfs greater than 880K before, so I'm definitely going to keep looking for a way to do this.

Akira · 19 August 2001, 23:20

If it uses the normal 80 tracks, tne it still should weight 880KB, perhaps it uses compression.

Those ADFs you saw I thikn have extra tracks for nothing. You can force TransADF to read above the trackk 79 mark, but if it is empty it will give you an error...

Grab that image you made and put it back onto a disk. See if you can load it like that on the miggy. Also, try that disk2fdi program.

Also try using Transadf.. a command like '' transadf df0: :temp/test.adf'... perhaps this works better instead of telling the program to go look for a device it must not understand. I didnt know you had to specify thr device name in transdisk, and not thr drive unit. There is a chance transdisk doesnt understand what to do with that special device.

Toni Wilen · 22 August 2001, 15:23

Quote:

If it uses the normal 80 tracks, tne it still should weight 880KB, perhaps it uses compression.

No, you can put more than 880kb to normal DD floppies by reducing the size of gap (empty space between end and start of track) and not writing sector headers. It isn't possible to create normal ADF-images from these kinds of floppies.

You can use my rawreader (http://www.arabuusimiehet.com/twilen/uae/) that creates extended adf-files or disk2fdi. But note that UAE does not yet support FDI images.

TikTok · 22 August 2001, 17:19

Thanks for your help everyone...I actually thought I had replied again to this thread but obviously not

I figured I needed something which read the raw disk data rather than the actual filesystem data, but couldn't find anything apart from the fdi stuff, which as you say isn't supported by emualtors. Your raw reader sounds just the thing I was looking for; I'll try it when I get home

Maybe I can upload the adfs I make if anyone is interested - they're only a few Amiga User International coverdisks, but I want to make sure I have copies of as many of my real amiga disks as possible

Akira · 23 August 2001, 04:01

Toni, you are DA MAN

One of the things I'd like UAE to fix is its disk support, and it seems you are putting a lot of effort in that!

Thanks for clearing up the info about that disk, I thought it was using compression, not that it was writing to it in a special way. Those disks would be nice to look at TikTok, coverdisks are always extremely welcome

TikTok · 23 August 2001, 11:57

I used the rawread program to make images of some diskspare disks last night....unfortunately I still couldn't get the adfs to mount in Workbench (under WinUAE)

I suspect it may be an emulation problem (thats not a criticisim) though - perhaps similar to the way images of some copy protected games fail because of disk-timing problems?

I also used rawread to try and copy some of my protected games and some got as far as loading screens etc, which suggests to me that the images themselves aren't bad. Then again, I'm no expert

Oh well, I'll post the coverdisks I have which aren't on the net - I always think its nice to have coverdisks. Back in the day when I thought the Amiga would last forever I often formatted mine when I was short of disks - if it wasn't for the net I'd never see these disks again

Akira · 23 August 2001, 17:20

I reformatted a few coverdisks myself, and I cannot regret it more today!!

The disks you have dumped will help Toni see what's up with them, and perhaps adding support for them in WinUAE!

TikTok · 25 August 2001, 12:04

OK, I have uploaded one example of these diskspare disks to the ADF Zone. Coverdisk 53 is a normal Amiga DOS disk which is booted and sets up the mountlist etc for disk 54, which is a diskspare disk. I've also included my mountlist and the device so you can try to access the disks
straight from Workbench if you want.

I'll try to upload a few more examples on Tuesday when I get back to work (knew there was a reason for having all that bandwidth

)

Toni Wilen · 26 August 2001, 17:54

AUI-54 (March1995).adf worked. (I got one checksum error, but clicking "retry" fixed it) So it seems UAE 0.8.17's improved floppy code fixed this.

SWIV didn't work but it probably uses copy protection that rawread can't handle.

BTW: UAE DSK2FDI's FDI-image support is nearly complete.

Akira · 26 August 2001, 22:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Akira
Toni, you are DA MAN

Had to say that again

TikTok · 26 August 2001, 22:49

I can't disagree with that Akira

Actually now I think about it, I didn't use the latest WinUAE to test the adfs because I can't seem to find the colon key under the 0.8.16 (needed to mount disks)....now I really must get this sorted out for the next release so I can use these adfs

TikTok · 28 August 2001, 14:03

I've uploaded a few Amiga Shopper coverdisks which I haven't seen elsewhere on the net into the ADFZone. Hopefully I can transfer some more when my Amiga comes back to life :eek

Twistin'Ghost · 28 August 2001, 15:57

Thanks for the contribs, TikTok! Looking forward to any more you can conjur up!

TikTok · 10 November 2001, 00:15

Yay! I finally got around to getting a new PSU for my Amiga!

I can dump some disks again, and more importantly, I can play Sensible Soccer with my good old Zipstick

. I've uploaded a couple more coverdisks which I haven't seen around the net before too

.

18 August 2001, 19:26	#1
TikTok Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: San Salvador, El Salvador Age: 32 Posts: 642	Making images of non-880K disks I knows its not possible to make adf files from non-DOS disks (which can't be accessed from Workbench), but what about those disks which aren't OFS or FFS, but for which a device exists in the devs drawer? For example, the Diskspare device (DS0) which was used on a lot of Amiga User International coverdisks allowed 980K on a disk. It seems to be that since you can mount these disks under workbench and access their contents, there must be a way to make a disk image of them.....but adf files only hold the 880K of a normal FFS disk. Now I'm confused. Can somebody please tell me whether I'm talking nonsense or not?

25 August 2001, 12:04	#11
TikTok Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: San Salvador, El Salvador Age: 32 Posts: 642	One example uploaded OK, I have uploaded one example of these diskspare disks to the ADF Zone. Coverdisk 53 is a normal Amiga DOS disk which is booted and sets up the mountlist etc for disk 54, which is a diskspare disk. I've also included my mountlist and the device so you can try to access the disks straight from Workbench if you want. I'll try to upload a few more examples on Tuesday when I get back to work (knew there was a reason for having all that bandwidth )

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18 August 2001, 21:24	#2
Akira Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: # Posts: 12,593	Tiktok, who told you you can;t make ADF files out of NDOS disks? You surely can! You just can't make normal ADF files out of COPY-PROTECTED disks. If the disks are unprotected (like all cracks) you can make ADFs out of them, wether or not they are DOS... As for those other devices, I really have no clue. Perhaps Codetapper can help you out If you have one of these DS0: disks try to image them, I bet they can be imaged UNLESS they are copy-protected.. I have an AUI disk, but it's a normal disk with all its files LHA'ed.

18 August 2001, 21:43	#3
Twistin'Ghost Give up the ghost Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: U$A Age: 22 Posts: 4,662	Yeah, I would suggest trying to image a DS0 disk, then installing the device on your emulated HD/OS, then try reading it there from the shell or WB (or Opus).

19 August 2001, 01:27	#4
TikTok Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: San Salvador, El Salvador Age: 32 Posts: 642	Akira: Sorry, my mistake...I meant to say copy protected disks but for some reason equated non-DOS with copy protected. Doh. I made an image of a diskspare disk just before I posted...the image was created ok, but it couldn't be read in the emulator. When I "inserted" the adf and mounted the diskspare device, the cli command simply didn't return....it didn't hang, but I had to eventually ctrl-c it to stop it. I have an exact copy of my Amiga's harddisk on my PC, so that isn't the problem. Thing is, diskspare disks can hold over 900K of data using the normal 80 tracks, but the adf created was still 880K in size. I used the command "transdis >disk.adf -d diskspare.device 0" btw. I've seen adfs greater than 880K before, so I'm definitely going to keep looking for a way to do this.

19 August 2001, 23:20	#5
Akira Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: # Posts: 12,593	If it uses the normal 80 tracks, tne it still should weight 880KB, perhaps it uses compression. Those ADFs you saw I thikn have extra tracks for nothing. You can force TransADF to read above the trackk 79 mark, but if it is empty it will give you an error... Grab that image you made and put it back onto a disk. See if you can load it like that on the miggy. Also, try that disk2fdi program. Also try using Transadf.. a command like '' transadf df0: :temp/test.adf'... perhaps this works better instead of telling the program to go look for a device it must not understand. I didnt know you had to specify thr device name in transdisk, and not thr drive unit. There is a chance transdisk doesnt understand what to do with that special device.

22 August 2001, 17:19	#7
TikTok Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: San Salvador, El Salvador Age: 32 Posts: 642	Thanks for your help everyone...I actually thought I had replied again to this thread but obviously not I figured I needed something which read the raw disk data rather than the actual filesystem data, but couldn't find anything apart from the fdi stuff, which as you say isn't supported by emualtors. Your raw reader sounds just the thing I was looking for; I'll try it when I get home Maybe I can upload the adfs I make if anyone is interested - they're only a few Amiga User International coverdisks, but I want to make sure I have copies of as many of my real amiga disks as possible

23 August 2001, 04:01	#8
Akira Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: # Posts: 12,593	Toni, you are DA MAN One of the things I'd like UAE to fix is its disk support, and it seems you are putting a lot of effort in that! Thanks for clearing up the info about that disk, I thought it was using compression, not that it was writing to it in a special way. Those disks would be nice to look at TikTok, coverdisks are always extremely welcome

23 August 2001, 11:57	#9
TikTok Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: San Salvador, El Salvador Age: 32 Posts: 642	I used the rawread program to make images of some diskspare disks last night....unfortunately I still couldn't get the adfs to mount in Workbench (under WinUAE) I suspect it may be an emulation problem (thats not a criticisim) though - perhaps similar to the way images of some copy protected games fail because of disk-timing problems? I also used rawread to try and copy some of my protected games and some got as far as loading screens etc, which suggests to me that the images themselves aren't bad. Then again, I'm no expert Oh well, I'll post the coverdisks I have which aren't on the net - I always think its nice to have coverdisks. Back in the day when I thought the Amiga would last forever I often formatted mine when I was short of disks - if it wasn't for the net I'd never see these disks again

23 August 2001, 17:20	#10
Akira Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: # Posts: 12,593	I reformatted a few coverdisks myself, and I cannot regret it more today!! The disks you have dumped will help Toni see what's up with them, and perhaps adding support for them in WinUAE!

26 August 2001, 17:54	#12
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 38 Posts: 12,032	AUI-54 (March1995).adf worked. (I got one checksum error, but clicking "retry" fixed it) So it seems UAE 0.8.17's improved floppy code fixed this. SWIV didn't work but it probably uses copy protection that rawread can't handle. BTW: UAE DSK2FDI's FDI-image support is nearly complete.

26 August 2001, 22:49	#14
TikTok Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: San Salvador, El Salvador Age: 32 Posts: 642	I can't disagree with that Akira Actually now I think about it, I didn't use the latest WinUAE to test the adfs because I can't seem to find the colon key under the 0.8.16 (needed to mount disks)....now I really must get this sorted out for the next release so I can use these adfs

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28 August 2001, 14:03	#15
TikTok Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: San Salvador, El Salvador Age: 32 Posts: 642	I've uploaded a few Amiga Shopper coverdisks which I haven't seen elsewhere on the net into the ADFZone. Hopefully I can transfer some more when my Amiga comes back to life :eek

28 August 2001, 15:57	#16
Twistin'Ghost Give up the ghost Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: U$A Age: 22 Posts: 4,662	Thanks for the contribs, TikTok! Looking forward to any more you can conjur up!

10 November 2001, 00:15	#17
TikTok Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: San Salvador, El Salvador Age: 32 Posts: 642	Yay! I finally got around to getting a new PSU for my Amiga! I can dump some disks again, and more importantly, I can play Sensible Soccer with my good old Zipstick . I've uploaded a couple more coverdisks which I haven't seen around the net before too .