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Old 26 May 2003, 12:17   #21
Mr Creosote
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Maybe it would be better being updated in modern 2D gfx but the way I see it is, if its crap, what have you lost? You can always ignore it and go play the superior original.
Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Kids of today will play (and probably even enjoy) the new version and then brag about how great the game is - and if they're shown the original, they'll whine how crappy that looks and the usual blah blah. Conclusion: more frustration for me.
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Old 26 May 2003, 14:48   #22
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Originally posted by Mr Creosote
Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Kids of today will play (and probably even enjoy) the new version and then brag about how great the game is - and if they're shown the original, they'll whine how crappy that looks and the usual blah blah. Conclusion: more frustration for me.
So what have YOU lost?

I think it is this simple. If kids play 'modern 3D version' and then experience 'old 2D version' and think its crap, then its THEIR loss.
There will also always be a certain number of kids who can appreciate the older games even if they never grew up with them as we did. My younger bro is an example of this. Just as the film buffs among us can appreciate films that were made before we were born (even without the modern visuals), there are some kids who can spot a good game, however old it may be.
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Old 26 May 2003, 14:53   #23
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Originally posted by Unknown_K


A game being 2d or 3d doesnt matter as long as the game itself is fun.

I think alot of the old adventure games would look nicer and attract a new generation if they were in lifelike 3d with their original story intact.

I would fucking kill for the xwing/tie fighter star wars games to be remade with the newest 3d engine and surround sound.

Although I'd concur with that, the problem is we don't actually see any 2D arcade titles!
I'm NOT so sure about the adventure games remakes-"Sam & Max" or D.O.T.T. were perfectly suited with their cartoony visuals I'd hate to see hyper-realistic mip-mapping AA wotsit eyecady.

Its a wait & see situation as to what the new Sam & Max & Broken Sword sequels will be like in that regard-I hope they do revive the genre, but I remain wary.

Like everyone else, I don't object to 3D games or remakes where appropriate,(Stunt Car Racer perfect example). But if you just have a menu choice of only 3D,good bad & ugly all the time then its like only having a McDonalds take-away, it gets boring.

EDIT: Can't claim credit for this, but I think it sums up some of these 2D classics converted into 3D remakes.....

"Who here liked the Gus Van Sant remake of Psycho better than the Hitchcock original? Speak up if this applies to you...
































<Crickets chirping>














<Dog barking down the street>










I rest my case "..........

Couldn't put it better myself!!

Last edited by 7-Zark-7; 26 May 2003 at 17:20.
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Old 26 May 2003, 17:43   #24
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Argh!!!!
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Old 26 May 2003, 18:45   #25
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lol
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Old 26 May 2003, 19:41   #26
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So what have YOU lost?
Precious time and patience! An example: When the last Spiderman computer game was released (stupid 3D action game), many many many many many people came to my site through Google looking for "spiderman walkthrough". Well, Google's result was correct - I have a review, screenshots, a walkthrough and a game download of a game of that name up. Just that it's a text adventure for the C64. Guess what happened: Lots of angry e-mails from kids who "couldn't find what they've been looking for in spite of Google saying I have it" accusing me of fraud. (yes, that wasn't about a remake, but the same can and will happen with them, too)

Quote:
Just as the film buffs among us can appreciate films that were made before we were born (even without the modern visuals), there are some kids who can spot a good game, however old it may be.
Just that the group which speaks up for old games is way smaller and absolutely not respected at all. Old movies and old literature are commonly accepted as art (the part which deserves it - not every piece of crap of course), old computer games are not.
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Old 26 May 2003, 20:39   #27
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hmmmm... after all you've said, I still stand by my first argument.
I have always been one of the first to criticise 3D remakes, but I've got a good feeling about this one.

One's that I haven't a good feeling about is: Full Throttle: Hell on wheels and Sam and Max: Freelance police
Adventure games SHOULD be in good 'ol fashion 2D!
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Old 26 May 2003, 21:19   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Creosote
Precious time and patience!....]


Pfft Big Deal! Hardly enough reason (IMO) not to give remakes that could work a chance.
Quote:

Just that the group which speaks up for old games is way smaller and absolutely not respected at all. Old movies and old literature are commonly accepted as art (the part which deserves it - not every piece of crap of course), old computer games are not.
Simply because games are a more recent invention I think.
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Old 27 May 2003, 16:38   #29
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Dastardly: Right, I'll forward all these e-mails to you in the future then
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Old 27 May 2003, 18:39   #30
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Originally posted by KombatSanta

One's that I haven't a good feeling about is: Full Throttle: Hell on wheels and Sam and Max: Freelance police
Adventure games SHOULD be in good 'ol fashion 2D! [/B]
BRAVO!!

Something which wouldn't help I'd assume is a lack of the great team of designers Lucasarts had when they were kings of the Graphic Adventure genre with Indy,DOTT,Sam & Max, Monkey Islands 1-3 etc.
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Old 27 May 2003, 20:36   #31
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Monkey Island 3 is extremely boring - I had to force myself to finish it. That proves 2D isn't everything
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Old 28 May 2003, 00:43   #32
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Dastardly: Right, I'll forward all these e-mails to you in the future then
lol
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Old 02 June 2003, 19:27   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Creosote
Monkey Island 3 is extremely boring - I had to force myself to finish it. That proves 2D isn't everything
Well, guess you're right... maybe it also needs a good team of brainstormers.

I agree that the problems were more frustrating than they were fun in that one. But still, it had a good atmosphere.
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Old 19 June 2003, 02:06   #34
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I dont care if it is 3D.What matters is

1.to be well structured
2.to have good gameplay
3.to keep it simple (or with option to be played in a more complex or simple way)
4.to avoid so heavy 3D fx that we will need to upgrade again !

If done properly , it will not NEED the 3D to be a good game.But it WILL be there so we might as well enjoy the fx too.

Lets hope Sid Meier doesnt flop this....
 
Old 19 June 2003, 02:22   #35
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Upgrading doesnt bother me that much as long as the experience the new hardware gives is worth it.

I was amazed how tombraider 1 for the PC looked after I got the patch for my 3dfx voodoo 1 (helped framrate alot), same with quake 1.

I was also thrilled when I played A3d enabled games with my aureal powered Monster mx300 3d sound card and 4 speakers.

These expamples show the difference the hardware addon makes to the same game without buying a whole new pc.

A 3d swordfight could be made to be very fun, same thing with ships firing at each other and showing realtime damage.

The rest of the game mechanics should be kept the same simple and fun they were on the original. I would be happy with a remake that offered 1024x768 graphics with a nice soundtrack and more detail in the ships, map etc.
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Old 19 June 2003, 02:32   #36
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You forgot the most important

For me it is the lenght of the game, sure i do like 2D and do like 3D, some good came out like Mafia, Medal of Honor, GTA3 lately but it makes me mad that most of these games don't go over 20 hours of gameplay! I prefer less good graphics but solid gameplay and long veryyyyyyy long...
Like Diablo, Loom, Elite, Syndicate, Gran Turismo, Dune, Midwinter, Captain Blood, Suidoken and much more....
Anyway games that are long and fun... Stop making clone version 1605456 of doom with 8 hours of playtime like the latest...Unreal...
 
Old 19 June 2003, 02:40   #37
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I remember getting dune 2 for the PC and playing it for 2-3 days straight untill I won, then picking another house and doing it again. I completed Diablo 1 and the Expansion a few times, dont think I finished diablo 2 100%.

The games I like are different every time you play them (quests change, maps are randomized, you find different ites) so that you end up playing them again. There isnt really a direct path from start to finish either, like you can go down more then 1 path and still win. Some games let you trade resources, use diplomacy, or just flat out fighting to win. Replay value is the key to alot of great games.

Max payne might be a great game, but once you finish it how many times do you want to play it again? Its like a murder mistory movie, the first time you see it your rivited to the screen, next time your just looking for clues you missed the first time around since you already know who did what and when.
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Old 19 June 2003, 02:44   #38
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Also i remember Master Of Magic and Master Of Orion 2 that can be played for hundreds of hours !

In fact i still play them from time to time (Master Of Magic is installed right now ! )
 
Old 19 June 2003, 02:49   #39
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I have quite a few classic games loaded on my dos only machine, xcom, master of orion, etc.
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Old 19 June 2003, 03:18   #40
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It's amazing but since 2-3 days now took out my amiga again and started a few games again... even if the graphics are not as good anymore i am like a child discovering for the first time the gameworld again... Just tried Lotus 3 again argggg it is still great, would be nice to have an editor in our new 3D racegames as lotus 3 does autogenerate some...

Pweeee i feel like you gone hear me for some time in the next weeks, feels like i gone replay a few hunderd games )))

Cya Veryyyyyy soon. Just gone go shoot a few Targoids, MKII Cobra's down hehe a few will know what game i am speaking about
 
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