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Old 17 April 2003, 09:07   #1
tomcat666
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The Lamest thing in Retro Gaming ?

Have a look at the biggest Atari ST source on the net :

http://www.atari.st/

They have really a lot of games... but when you want to get a game from them they actually CHARGE you for it... YES, you need to pay $0.5 to get the game disk image MAILED to you ! Is that an outrage or what ?

They are basically pirating and selling the old games... common ! I mailed them and didn't get any response (I wasn't very nice in the mail though ;-) ) ...

here is a link to their pay-for-mail page (for the Tai-Pan game):

http://www.atari.st/gamemail.php?t=Tai+Pan
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Old 17 April 2003, 10:22   #2
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Piracy is not just game-for-money but also game-for-free. Piracy doesn't have to do with money but with copying a game in general. BTW, the best ST games resource is the DVD compilation I make. I have 3.96 GBs of ST software. Nearly 95% of the ST games, 60% of ST Appz and Utilities, 85% of ST demos, Musix, etc. It's a nearly complete software archive for the ST. I will soon make one for the Amiga but they are not for sale. Sorry, but I am not a pirate as most of this is my own software (haven't downloaded crap from the net!!!!)
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Old 17 April 2003, 11:19   #3
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It could be handy if it had been real disks they had come on. Some people can't for some reasons write their own images back to disks. Here it would be a nice service if they threw in disks for the game as well, at least I'd think so. But E-mailing isn't a very good way to do it.

Oh and I believe there are harder punishments for pirates who charge for the copies than pirates who do it for free. Something about profiting from other people's work where others don't seek to make a profit.

I haven't really browsed the page but if they had agreements with the copyright holders of the game I'd say it would be a good thing to actually pay a small amount for an old game. I know I'd want to pay knowing the copyright holder hopefully gets a share of it too if I couldn't find the original.
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Old 17 April 2003, 11:24   #4
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Nah, they don't have any permissions to do so... and besides MOST of the games they have are in a form of a compilation disk (more than one game on it) - which were much more common on ST than on Amiga. They are just trying to make a fast buck.
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Old 17 April 2003, 13:47   #5
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It's bullshit like this that probably makes getting permissions from publishers more difficult. Whilst most of us in the retrogaming community are driven by the need to preserve our cultural gaming heritage (and our memories) before it vanishes, these bunch of losers just want to exploit something that is not theirs so they can profit from their cheesy internet presence.

It wouldn't surprise me a bit if the permissions project clamped up even tighter now due to these vermin.
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Old 17 April 2003, 17:06   #6
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I disagree with you man... How about web hosting? Do you think that it comes free for them? Maybe they need the money to preserve the site and to preserve the society. If you had this chance in this site (ie download Amiga software through HOL) but you knew that this can only happen if you had the webspace (not free of course), would you pay for that disk? C'mon, be real...

After all, the amount of money they ask for is ridiculous and they say that it is temporary until the CD compilations are ready. If I was saying that in one month's time, I will have a DVD with every Amiga game for 10 quid, I bet that 90% of the people in these forums would actually kill each other to ensure that they will get one regardless of what they believe about piracy. But I won't mainly because the community need efforts from people like C.A.P.S. and nothing else...
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Old 17 April 2003, 18:34   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by manicx
I disagree with you man... How about web hosting? Do you think that it comes free for them? Maybe they need the money to preserve the site and to preserve the society. If you had this chance in this site (ie download Amiga software through HOL) but you knew that this can only happen if you had the webspace (not free of course), would you pay for that disk? C'mon, be real...

After all, the amount of money they ask for is ridiculous and they say that it is temporary until the CD compilations are ready. If I was saying that in one month's time, I will have a DVD with every Amiga game for 10 quid, I bet that 90% of the people in these forums would actually kill each other to ensure that they will get one regardless of what they believe about piracy. But I won't mainly because the community need efforts from people like C.A.P.S. and nothing else...
Who cares if they have to pay for webspace. Their selling stuff that isnt theirs to sell. Would you feel sorry for the theif complaining how much his table costs at the flee market when you notice everything he is selling he stole from you?

Anybody selling games they dont own is lame period. I have purchased quite a few games and other software for my systems, I have also downloaded quite a few roms/cd's from the net for collecting purposes (so that makes me a pirate too) but I dont charge to distribute the stuff to friends privately. I also dont have a public site to distribute them either. Very few places sell older console/computer games. The ones that do sell older titles pocket the money, the publishers dont see a penny from those games no matter how many times they are resold. So you can argue the point that is 10 year old game x isnt being sold anymore by the publisher (or the company that owns the old publisher now) who are you hurting to archive their program with 1000's of others in your collection.
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Old 18 April 2003, 04:08   #8
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Exactly - the fact that they choose to host a tribute site to their favorite old computer comes with a price...bandwidth included. Because they have this cost doesn't give them free reign to steal others' property to sell simply to pay for a hobby that THEY decided to take on. How would it look to you if some bloke started a Britney Spears tribute site and to pay for the bandwidth he decided he'd sell mp3's to visitors of the site. Too new? OK, then...The Beatles! It's no different. Nobody makes these people run that site and if they choose to do so, it's their responsibility. Unfortunately, their careless decision may hurt us all in the long run.

That's an ST fan for you...
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Old 18 April 2003, 12:08   #9
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Nobody thought like that when the Amiga was struggling to stay alive. You missed my somewhere though. Both communities (ST and Amiga) suffered from exactly the same thing. It seems though that we enjoyed having pirated crap in the past but it is lame now... Pity!
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Old 18 April 2003, 14:16   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by manicx
Nobody thought like that when the Amiga was struggling to stay alive. You missed my somewhere though. Both communities (ST and Amiga) suffered from exactly the same thing. It seems though that we enjoyed having pirated crap in the past but it is lame now... Pity!
The scene then and the scene now cannot be compared, as this is not the same thing. Completely different concepts altogether.

And for the record, I was also opposed to the selling of pirated software back then.
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Old 18 April 2003, 14:51   #11
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The scene is exactly the same, only reduced in numbers. I am still using an Amiga and so I did in the past. There is a connection to the question: WHY?

I was opposed to piracy too, but what was happening when our pal was coming to our place with a brand new pirated version of game X? We were copying it of course!!! Unless you were saying: Bahh I will buy the original tomorrow!!! I had, have and will have every single original game I bought even if the game got corrupted at some point. And believe me, I do have both original (plenty) and pirated ( ) Amiga Software...
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Old 18 April 2003, 15:04   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by manicx
The scene is exactly the same, only reduced in numbers. I am still using an Amiga and so I did in the past.
The scene is NOT the same. Quite a number of publishers and owners of the old software have no problem with their games being spread today as long as nobody is profiting from the operation. Nothing of the sort was the case back when the games were released. If everything is exactly identical in your life as back then, well that's another matter entirely. But your situation isn't what we were talking about, only the 'scene'.
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Old 18 April 2003, 16:05   #13
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Events like the Alternative Party and Assembly prove that the scene is exactly the same. I was thinking of other things before that, but last January, my trip to Finland help me to re-evaluate the whole thing.

One question now: Do you think that these people will make profit by providing images of ST games for $0.50? I doubt it...
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Old 18 April 2003, 16:14   #14
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From newbies they probably will. Its not that hard to find images if you know where to look. But somebody just starting out or realy wants to play an old game will probably spend the money on a few disks.
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Old 19 April 2003, 01:17   #15
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If they want to get some money for webspace they should place banners. I've seen internet pages where you had to click a banner before you could download the game. That'd be ok. But "selling" (as I call it) pirated games is shite. It's just 50 cent, but that's not the point.
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Old 19 April 2003, 13:58   #16
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Yes of course selling zeraws is and has always been the ultimate lameness, totally agree there. These guys ought to be reported to some authority, not because of the zeraws but because of the money and because it's such poofs that can make the whole 'legal emulation' effort of so many people undone.

Another example is the Emerald Mine Club where they argue that one of their disks cost Eur2.25 (no P&P when they email it ) and their collection CD with 550 pirated EM games will put the buyer down by (hold tight to your armchair) 350 Euros.

Arguably EM is pure cult but why these people try to cut a profit from it is beyond me. I mean if they really did wish well for the game their collection ought to be TOSECized and free for everybody.
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Old 19 April 2003, 17:48   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lockrobster
Arguably EM is pure cult but why these people try to cut a profit from it is beyond me. I mean if they really did wish well for the game their collection ought to be TOSECized and free for everybody.
Totally agreed on all counts. We have been on the lookout for someone with a copy of the CD so we can rip the remaining games not in the EM TOSEC dat, but I've yet to find someone who has it (not surprising). And even if someone did, they'd more than likely not share the games after plunking down such an absurd price. There's also some other rare, coveted Amiga CD's out there (iso's, yet) that a select few are hordeing for God knows what reason (probably that L33T nonsense). I guess some things never change. One day it will all be 'obtained' and they will feel foolish, I suppose. Hopefully...
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Old 23 April 2003, 21:24   #18
RCK
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The Little Green Desktop have been up since ages, and was free and overloaded when they were on http://www.fatal-design.com/
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Old 24 April 2003, 00:00   #19
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Yeah, I remember. Back then it was fine, downloading games was for free. As far as I remember they had banners on their site...

As you say, the site was up for ages FOR FREE, so why should they need the money now for webspace ?
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Old 24 April 2003, 00:17   #20
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Quote:
Another example is the Emerald Mine Club where they argue that one of their disks cost Eur2.25 (no P&P when they email it ) and their collection CD with 550 pirated EM games will put the buyer down by (hold tight to your armchair) 350 Euros.
I have an idea. Someone should start a non-profit website that accepts paypal donations, ect. When the the there's enough donations to finally buy the Emerald Mine cd (which IMO, is probably a scam), just release it for free to the rest of the world.
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