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Old 05 November 2018, 15:34   #241
Minuous
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@BSzili:

3.X is just a downgrade of 3.5/3.9, nothing was updated or recompiled, as pointed out by Daedalus and admitted by Cloanto themselves at http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/15-107

They just took OS3.9 and deleted some parts and replaced others with obsolete versions, that's nothing that the community should be grateful for. It just causes trouble for developers and users, eg.: I get bug reports from users of my applications who are running OS3.X; the issue turns out to be buggy obsolete versions of OS components that Cloanto provide, whereas the bugs have already been fixed 18 years ago.

>Also were they approached by Thor and Olsen to release 3.1.4, and they refused to publish it?

I assume they are aware that Cloanto don't have that right.

Last edited by Minuous; 05 November 2018 at 15:41.
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Old 05 November 2018, 15:42   #242
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Originally Posted by BSzili View Post
Also were [Cloanto] approached by Thor and Olsen to release 3.1.4, and they refused to publish it? What is the claim here?
ThoR believes that the "Settlement Agreement" gives Hyperion the right to publish an updated 68k 3.1 while granting Cloanto the right to publish kickstart binaries up to and including 3.1. Thus, he wouldn't consider publishing his work through Cloanto.
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Old 05 November 2018, 15:58   #243
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I suspect that this was actually a badly written agreement with the intent being for them to develop 4.x (which as has been pointed out nobody wants).
That's exactly it - they were given rights to use the 3.1 source code for developing the 4.x releases, but Hyperion managed to get wording into the agreement which they are trying to bend into something which was against the purpose of the agreement.

Amiga Inc's response to the 2nd amended complaint points that out in quite some detail.

The situation is indeed a farce, but I'd certainly not want Hyperion in charge of anything given their current and past actions.
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Old 05 November 2018, 15:58   #244
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Originally Posted by BSzili View Post
Also were they approached by Thor and Olsen to release 3.1.4, and they refused to publish it?
Source?
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Old 05 November 2018, 16:08   #245
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Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
@BSzili:

3.X is just a downgrade of 3.5/3.9
strictly speaking 3.1.4 is also a "downgrade" in this comparison. not that i want to insist on making it look bad. but lets be fair.
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Old 05 November 2018, 16:15   #246
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Thus, he wouldn't consider publishing his work through Cloanto.
While he keeps accusing Cloanto of all sorts of illegal things, he also stated he'd be considering them if Hyperion were no longer an option. He just pointed out it would be more complicated, since Cloanto doesn't have access to the 4.x code,. some of which was used in 3.1.4.

I think Thor and Olsen are mostly interested in code, no matter how much noise Thor makes about legalese.
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Old 05 November 2018, 16:35   #247
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I must upgrade my A1200 kickstart from 3.0 to 3.1, I don't really what to do with that situation...
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Old 05 November 2018, 16:36   #248
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It makes no sense for Cloanto to be complaining about the 3.1.4 release, it does literally no damage of any kind to them, if anything it just helps damage the community further. I will not buy anything from Cloanto ever again, as a result. I also regret buying that Amiga Forever years ago. If you think about it, it could have been a bonus content seller for them to add in the new Amiga Forever release.

From a technical standpoint, the 3.1.4 is a good update. It has its annoyances and I definitely would not use it on a floppy only system but it really is a nice step forward.
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Old 05 November 2018, 16:50   #249
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Originally Posted by wawa View Post
strictly speaking 3.1.4 is also a "downgrade" in this comparison. not that i want to insist on making it look bad. but lets be fair.
Unless you want the Intuition upgrade.. ;-)
(Which is something I have been hoping for in a 68k AmigaOS for a long time.)
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Old 05 November 2018, 16:51   #250
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Originally Posted by Korodny View Post
While he keeps accusing Cloanto of all sorts of illegal things, he also stated he'd be considering them if Hyperion were no longer an option.
Yes, what you say is correct and I didn't want to deny that. When I wrote "he wouldn't consider" this was meant to be indirect speech in past tense. I'm not sure I worded it grammatically correct.
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Old 05 November 2018, 17:06   #251
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Well...
* Cloanto is apparently not behind taking down OS 3.1.4.
* Hyperion have been distributing earlier releases of the OS, for use with emulators, this is what they are in court over.
* Hyperion only had exclusive rights in regards to developing OS 4
* ThoR now says (on a1k.org) that OS 3.1.4 in a legal sense *is* "AmigaOs 4"

Why do they say Reaction sources are "out of reach" if Hyperion has rights to it all? Could it be that the contract regarding Reaction explicitly prevents Hyperion from developing Reaction on OS3 or/and 68k?
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Old 05 November 2018, 19:00   #252
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Unless you want the Intuition upgrade.. ;-)
(Which is something I have been hoping for in a 68k AmigaOS for a long time.)
me too. years ago. in the meantime i have used power windows for years and now i have aros, which allows me to push windows outta the screen by default. also i thought that improved intuition is a separate package in the same sense as mmu.libs, since it has problems with cgx?
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Old 05 November 2018, 19:07   #253
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Ciao Wawa, Power Windows unfortunately it does not work on OS 3.9, there is a way to straighten compatible AROS 68k libraries on OS 3.9 and AfA-OS ?
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Old 05 November 2018, 19:11   #254
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me too. years ago. in the meantime i have used power windows for years and now i have aros, which allows me to push windows outta the screen by default. also i thought that improved intuition is a separate package in the same sense as mmu.libs, since it has problems with cgx?
Not a separate package. Just not enabled by default. (Which I think is a mistake, but they didn't ask me. ;-)
Somehow I missed PowerWindows!! ;-( Wish I hadn't missed that package.
If/when AROS runs better on 68k (including the original), I'll look into it again. If I wanted to run an Amiga-like on Intel or ARM, I'd be all over it.
Glad it exists!
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Old 05 November 2018, 19:47   #255
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Originally Posted by kolla View Post
Well...
* Cloanto is apparently not behind taking down OS 3.1.4.
* Hyperion have been distributing earlier releases of the OS, for use with emulators, this is what they are in court over.
* Hyperion only had exclusive rights in regards to developing OS 4
* ThoR now says (on a1k.org) that OS 3.1.4 in a legal sense *is* "AmigaOs 4"

Why do they say Reaction sources are "out of reach" if Hyperion has rights to it all? Could it be that the contract regarding Reaction explicitly prevents Hyperion from developing Reaction on OS3 or/and 68k?
OS 3.1.4 is a bug fixed version of 3.1, it does not provide significant new features or major changes. Thus, in the normal sense, it is not what people would call a version 4.

Legally, anything is probably possible though...

Interesting this with Reaction. If it legally is version 4, then why not use Reaction? It cannot be that they are limited by version 3, because legally it is not version 3, it is version 4. Thus, either they do not have a license to use it on 68k, or they did not want to stir up too many changes and just wanted to focus on making 3.1 behave better (making what we normal people would call a version 3).

Err... well, I think that i will stop wasting my time about this.

3.1.4 is now part of this legal dispute and whatever we might think and interpret things does not matter, really. It will be up to the court in a jury trial, late 2019 as far as I understand it. I just hope they are capable of doing a better job this time.

I will now only focus on things that are not affected by these matters, that is for sure.
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Old 05 November 2018, 19:51   #256
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Well, there is also the interesting aspect of what happens with OS 3.1.4 when (not if) Hyperion vanishes, which may very well happen long before the court case
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Old 05 November 2018, 20:37   #257
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Originally Posted by AMIGASYSTEM View Post
Ciao Wawa, Power Windows unfortunately it does not work on OS 3.9, there is a way to straighten compatible AROS 68k libraries on OS 3.9 and AfA-OS ?
it does. i have used it on 3.9 along with patches from doobrey and official&unofficial boingbags. all compiled in nto the custom kickstart rom. and used afaos with it.

you just had to patch intuition to allow for moving windows out to the left and to the top.
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Old 05 November 2018, 20:39   #258
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Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
@BSzili:

3.X is just a downgrade of 3.5/3.9, nothing was updated or recompiled, as pointed out by Daedalus and admitted by Cloanto themselves at http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/15-107

They just took OS3.9 and deleted some parts and replaced others with obsolete versions, that's nothing that the community should be grateful for. It just causes trouble for developers and users, eg.: I get bug reports from users of my applications who are running OS3.X; the issue turns out to be buggy obsolete versions of OS components that Cloanto provide, whereas the bugs have already been fixed 18 years ago.

>Also were they approached by Thor and Olsen to release 3.1.4, and they refused to publish it?

I assume they are aware that Cloanto don't have that right.
3.1.4 is also a downgrade from 3.9 and it also introduced new bugs and compatibility issues, you should check out the feedback. I'm very surprised that you of all the people ignore this, since you conside everything that's not 3.9 garbage. And does Hyperion own the rights to develop and publish AmigaOS 3.1? Apparently don't because they are currently in a legal battle because of this whole 3.1.4 business.
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Old 05 November 2018, 21:16   #259
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This kind of threads represents well what is wrong with Amiga scene, 13 pages of nonsense, opinions, opinions said like facts, negative speculation, rumours, etc.

eab. used to to be better place.
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Old 05 November 2018, 21:23   #260
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it does. i have used it on 3.9 along with patches from doobrey and official&unofficial boingbags. all compiled in nto the custom kickstart rom. and used afaos with it.
Thanks wawa, where can I find this software?
Regarding AROS 68k, is it possible to use its libraries on OS 3.9?
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