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Old 11 October 2018, 22:57   #1
Snowwie
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How to load kickstart rom 3.1.4 into memory?

In this video:


[ Show youtube player ]


This guy has an ACA1233N turbo card, which allows him to execute the rom file before his system starts.

I don't have that card (yet), just a regular Amiga 1200 with 2MB chipram.


What I do have is:
- The bought Workbench 3.1.4 from Hyperion
- A fresh 32GB Sandisk Extreme for installation
- Workbench 3.1.4 transferred to floppies
- A disk with the rom file


I have gone through the manuals but I can't really figure out HOW I exactly put this rom file into memory. It does state something about using an Eprom to burn your own roms (which is out of the question) and they talk about the turbo-cards having their own dedicated memory for roms.
But how about a plain Amiga 1200 without that?



So far I have done this:
- I already made a disk and copied the rom file onto it.
- Made an s directory and a startup-sequence
- Made a c directory (tried Setpatch romfile and Execute Romfile, both did not work).


Can somebody tell me HOW (please tell in steps HOWTO) I create this disk to put a newer rom into memory.
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Old 11 October 2018, 23:11   #2
desiv
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I'm not sure you would want to with only the 2M RAM?
Mapping a rom file to your 1200 takes memory (at least 512k).
(And I'm not sure you can with CHIP memory. Don't most programs that do that copy it into FAST RAM? Although that might be just because it is faster.)
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Old 11 October 2018, 23:35   #3
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Excuse my ignorance but can this not be done the same as loading other Kickstarts into RAM using Mkick or similar?

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Old 11 October 2018, 23:55   #4
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I would have say : Relokick... but so long I did not used it that I don't know if it can be used to "upgrade" the rom. It's easy to find it, so why not giving a try
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Old 12 October 2018, 00:48   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desiv View Post
I'm not sure you would want to with only the 2M RAM?
Mapping a rom file to your 1200 takes memory (at least 512k).
(And I'm not sure you can with CHIP memory. Don't most programs that do that copy it into FAST RAM? Although that might be just because it is faster.)
Well, when having OS 3.1 currently installed, from the 2meg of chip ram I still have 1.7-1.8meg of ram free. Surely the installer takes a lot of ram, but putting the rom file (524kbytes) into memory should give enough room left to install Workbench (I guess). The installer only works per floppy disk so it can never put more than 880kbytes into memory, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesta_smsc View Post
Excuse my ignorance but can this not be done the same as loading other Kickstarts into RAM using Mkick or similar?

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Thank you for your input, but as often happen people tell you what to do, but never exactly HOW to do. If you say "use Mkick", then I still don't know how to use that program. I need someone who did this before and can explain how exactly you can put another rom file into memory and survive a (warm) reset.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malko View Post
I would have say : Relokick... but so long I did not used it that I don't know if it can be used to "upgrade" the rom. It's easy to find it, so why not giving a try
Relokick? From what I can find about it, it's more for 'downgrading' an A1200 3.1 rom to e.g 1.3, and also has to be bought at Amiga Forever. There has to be a free solution for this right? The guy in the YouTube video used his ACA1233N card (and software) to copy the rom into the cards dedicated memory. This 'temporary' fix can be used until Hyperion starts selling actual physical 3.1.4 roms.

Last edited by Snowwie; 12 October 2018 at 01:02.
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Old 12 October 2018, 01:03   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwie View Post
ACA1233N card (and software) to copy the rom into the cards dedicated memory. This 'temporary' fix can be used until Hyperion starts selling actual physical 3.1.4 roms.
The ACA (I have one of those) uses a program called ACATune that comes with it and will only work with an ACA card.
There is a similar program for Blizzard accelerators called Blizkick (??) I think, that also probably only works with Blizzard accelerators.

There are some programs to possibly do it for any Amiga. Programs like mkick (mentioned) and skick.

I'm not sure if they will work with the new 3.1.4 ROM...
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Old 12 October 2018, 02:13   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwie View Post
[...] Relokick? From what I can find about it, it's more for 'downgrading' an A1200 3.1 rom to e.g 1.3, [...]
That's why I said : "[..] so long I did not used it that I don't know if it can be used to "upgrade" the rom. [..]"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwie View Post
[...] and also has to be bought at Amiga Forever. [...]
Here you are mistaken. It's not because a company appears first in a search engine result that you have to "think" that it is the only source . Also, if you have a closer look at Cloanto's site you will read : "[..] Galahad of Fairlight has graciously allowed us to include his code [...]" .

On my side, I saw Relokick on TOSEC labelled as PUBLIC DOMAIN .

Because I am curious, after posting, I have made a 'one shot' test under WinUAE. Tried to "upgrade" 1.3 (256KB) to 3.1 (512KB). I have thus replaced the "rom1.3" file with a copy of the 3.1.
It has aborted with an error...
Now, I know it doesn't work with Relokick in this particular situation .
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Last edited by malko; 12 October 2018 at 09:50. Reason: wording
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Old 12 October 2018, 03:01   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desiv View Post
The ACA (I have one of those) uses a program called ACATune that comes with it and will only work with an ACA card.
There is a similar program for Blizzard accelerators called Blizkick (??) I think, that also probably only works with Blizzard accelerators.

There are some programs to possibly do it for any Amiga. Programs like mkick (mentioned) and skick.

I'm not sure if they will work with the new 3.1.4 ROM...
I tried Skick, it won't even see the rom file. But the rom file itself does not have a specific extension (like *.rom) but just ends with 3 digits.

This is it's name: kick.a1200.46.143
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Old 12 October 2018, 13:47   #9
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Skick always requires an rtb file to go with the rom as far as I remember, it does not support MMU softkicking (and you don't even have an MMU).

In your current configuration, I would recommend to use loadmodule instead.
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Old 12 October 2018, 15:04   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jope View Post
Skick always requires an rtb file to go with the rom as far as I remember, it does not support MMU softkicking (and you don't even have an MMU).
In your current configuration, I would recommend to use loadmodule instead.
Again, no offense, somebody who tells me WHAT to do, but not HOW to do.

"Use Loadmodule".

Okay? How?

Tried it, copied all the files into the C map on the KICK314 floppy and put in startup-sequence : Loadmodule kick.a1200.46.143
Did it work? No, it gives an error message.
----

Anyway, I already ordered the ACA1233N card at Amigastore and asked them specifically that the file used by the guy in the YouTube video is present on the the disk. I even send them the link to the video where he uses that file (at 28:01). My Amiga needs more power anyway. With only 2MB Chip ram I cannot do much. That still leaves only the powerbrick.
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Old 12 October 2018, 15:23   #11
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Surely you just install WB3.1.4 and the install process will add what is called "setpatch" to your startup sequence and part of that is "romupdates" whereby the required new ROM modules are patched into RAM? (Your boot process will include a reboot to make them live, resulting in an overall longer boot process)

If you are on KS3.0 and cannot use WB3.1.4 (because KS3.0 is not supported?) then I'm afraid despite what everyone above is saying I don't think there is anything you can do.

You cannot use skick (a program to patch Kickstart into RAM) with KS3.1.4 (yet) because AFAIK there is no rtb file and you cannot use ones for other versions of KS.

Send the ROM file(s) away to be programmed into 2*27C400 EPROMs and replace your old KS ROMs. There are several EPROM vendors who will pre-program parts if you send them the data files (at a very small cost)
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Old 12 October 2018, 15:51   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwie View Post

Thank you for your input, but as often happen people tell you what to do, but never exactly HOW to do. If you say "use Mkick", then I still don't know how to use that program. I need someone who did this before and can explain how exactly you can put another rom file into memory and survive a (warm) reset.
Solo761 over at Amibay made a bootable disk with mkick and you just supply the kick start image. He was using it for Amiga A500 KS1.3 to KS 3.1

I'm not familiar with the .RTB and cannot recall if I ever used that or whether it was already on the disk Solo761 created?

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Old 12 October 2018, 16:05   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwie View Post
Again, no offense, somebody who tells me WHAT to do, but not HOW to do.
Do you have 3.0 or 3.1 in rom?

If 3.0, get a hold of a kick 3.1 file, use skick to kick that.

Then install 3.1.4 from under your skicked 3.1 rom and it will handle all of the rest. After installation you must copy your 3.1 rom file + rtb + pat files to the hard disk and add the skick command as the first thing in your startup-sequence. Please read the skick documentation for further information.

If 3.1, the 3.1.4 installer will do the loadmodule bit automatically for you.

This is speculation, I am not sure whether loadmodule will work under an skicked kickstart. You will not have very much memory to work with on a 2MB A1200 anyway, so this is perhaps interesting only to see how the workbench looks when installed, not something you'd do on a system you're going to use.

But since you asked, that's my opinion, I haven't tested the procedure in practice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lesta_smsc View Post
Solo761 over at Amibay made a bootable disk with mkick and you just supply the kick start image. He was using it for Amiga A500 KS1.3 to KS 3.1

I'm not familiar with the .RTB and cannot recall if I ever used that or whether it was already on the disk Solo761 created
Mkick uses .kick and .kshd files instead of skick's .pat and .rtb files. Nevertheless, these files are available from the mkick/skick archives for a bunch of previously known kickstarts.
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Old 12 October 2018, 16:42   #14
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I use KS 3.1 now

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post
Surely you just install WB3.1.4 and the install process will add what is called "setpatch" to your startup sequence and part of that is "romupdates" whereby the required new ROM modules are patched into RAM? (Your boot process will include a reboot to make them live, resulting in an overall longer boot process)
Chicken / Egg principle. The new OS has the feature for larger drive support. I cannot install WB 3.1.4 on KS 3.1 knowing all the troubles it can create (even stated by the vendors themselves) and still be limited to the 4GB barrier.

Quote:
You cannot use skick (a program to patch Kickstart into RAM) with KS3.1.4 (yet) because AFAIK there is no rtb file and you cannot use ones for other versions of KS.
Then why suggesting it?
Quote:
Send the ROM file(s) away to be programmed into 2*27C400 EPROMs and replace your old KS ROMs. There are several EPROM vendors who will pre-program parts if you send them the data files
I hope we can eventually buy these rom chips from Hyperion. It kind of surprises me they did not combine this?
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Old 12 October 2018, 17:46   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwie View Post
Then why suggesting it?
I think you missed the word "yet" in his statement. ;-)
It is a way people have used to load ROMs manually in the past, so it is what would normally be used for this, but there is not YET support for this new ROM.
It is information for you and others reading this thread who might be interested.
Thanx Alexh for the information/clarification.
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Old 12 October 2018, 18:51   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwie View Post
Chicken / Egg principle. The new OS has the feature for larger drive support. I cannot install WB 3.1.4 on KS 3.1 knowing all the troubles it can create (even stated by the vendors themselves) and still be limited to the 4GB barrier.
Have a small boot partition with loadmodule and the modules on it + the required commands to transfer control to your larger main partition.. Read the scripts in your 3.1 install disk's Update directory for inspiration (these old scripts have been removed from the 3.1.4 install disk). One reboot and the relevant modules will be in RAM.

Any softkick solution will initially limit you to a bit under 8GB using a DirectSCSI capable filesystem..
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Old 12 October 2018, 19:12   #17
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What flash/EEPROM type are the ROMs in A1200? 29F400?

Snowwie,

I have several programmers, probably supported. If you send the purchased kick files I can burn the ROMs for you.
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Old 12 October 2018, 20:10   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desiv View Post
The ACA (I have one of those) uses a program called ACATune that comes with it and will only work with an ACA card.
ACATune is for the cards speed.

ACAMapROM is to map a ROM image.

Mapping any ROM to physical "System" memory and not "expansion" memory will do you no good as its just as fast as an actual ROM.

Mapping a ROM to memory needs to happen before boot for the OS to recognize it otherwise it wont boot.

3.1.4 comes with a Modules disk that basically does the same thing no ROM or Rom mapping needed... Just install and follow instructions.

Once the card is aquired you can then use the

"ACAMapROM I Q" command in startup-sequence and it will take over from there even though you installed without the ROM installed.

Oh and by the way ACATune only works with two of Icomp's cards not ALL ACA cards...
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Old 12 October 2018, 20:18   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwie View Post
I tried Skick, it won't even see the rom file. But the rom file itself does not have a specific extension (like *.rom) but just ends with 3 digits.

This is it's name: kick.a1200.46.143
For some reason i had to add the .ROM to the end.

You can rename the rome file S#ART.ROM it will still load just have to remember all of your S#ART!:
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Old 12 October 2018, 20:28   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMD View Post
ACATune is for the cards speed.
ACAMapROM is to map a ROM image.
Not with my ACA1230...
ACAtune does the maprom function.

From the ACATune manual online:
http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/ACAtune#maprom
Quote:
The following is a list of available options in ACATune. Please note that not all ACA cards support all options. Especially new cards have been cleaned from options that make the system instable.

maprom
Using the Maprom function, you can copy the Amiga operating system to the on-board memory of your accelerator card, speeding up overall system performance significantly.
Note that for ACA630 and ACA1230 cards, ACATune needs to allocate the necessary memory at a specific position, which is why this feature should be enabled as early as possible, so that no other task can take this memory.
Owners of an ACA1231 can disregard this warning, as the maprom memory is always kept reserved and never marked as "free" for any other program to use. On ACA630 and AC1230 cards, this feature will deduct 1MB of memory, regardless of the actual ROM size that you have specified.
Examples:
ACATune -maprom * Using one asterisk, ACATune will copy the internal 512KB ROM into Fast-Ram. This feature can be used without rebooting the system and will only be activated if the Amiga was booted from the internal ROM.
ACATune -maprom ** Using two asterisks, ACATune will copy 1MB internal ROM memory to Fast-Ram. Otherwise, it works the same as the 512KB option.
ACATune -maprom <romfile> In addition to using the internal ROM, you can load any 256KB, 512KB or 1MB romfile into Fast-Ram and use it as operating system. Just specify the name of the romfile, including the full path, and ACATune will attempt to load and execute it immediately. After loading the file, the screen will flash shortly and your computer will be rebooted using the new operating system.
ACATune -maprom off To disable the Maprom function, you can specify the "off" parameter, which re-enables execution of the actual ROM chips in your computer. ACATune will reboot the computer immediately, making the 1MB of Fast-Ram available to the system for ACA630 and ACA1230 users.
ACAtune -maprom * p With Kickstart in fastmem, the computer starts extremely fast. Sometimes so fast that the Gayle chip is not yet out of reset state - it will miss some accesses. As a result, the computer does not find a harddisk and comes up with the "insert disk" screen, waiting for a bootable disk to be inserted. By adding the "p" option to your maprom command line, ACAtune will attempt to patch the kickstart and insert a short waiting period on every reset. This will give the Gayle chip and harddrives enough time to wake up from reset condition and go into normal operation. The screen is turned light brown during the waiting period.
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