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Old 17 September 2017, 13:29   #21
dlfrsilver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimDrew View Post
Disk images to disk work fine with SuperCard Pro and any type of flux data (copy protected or not).
We are talking about ADF disk images. Not flux images.

The ADF format doesn't support the copylock/speedlock/weak bits protection systems.
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Old 17 September 2017, 14:05   #22
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I tried on my A500 hardware and still couldn't get Adams Family working using the cracked PowerCopy and disk to disk with the Adams Family parameter, probably needs the hardware dongle?
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Old 17 September 2017, 14:29   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryB View Post
I tried on my A500 hardware and still couldn't get Adams Family working using the cracked PowerCopy and disk to disk with the Adams Family parameter, probably needs the hardware dongle?
that's possible. Or your copy has bad tracks, or either it's an unsupported version. That's 2 other possibility.
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Old 17 September 2017, 14:33   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryB View Post
I tried on my A500 hardware and still couldn't get Adams Family working using the cracked PowerCopy and disk to disk with the Adams Family parameter, probably needs the hardware dongle?
me neither
surely requires the hardware dongie to copy this RNC and you must set speed adjust
idem with wwarp, ask you for sybil to create this disk

however using lockpick as retro1234 suggested I created a semi-original floppy of addams family


yet
there is the posibility that lockpick create a perfect copy of adams family because ask you if you want a backup of the original, ask you to protect the disk before continue, but in winuae not works, it seems in winuae using ipf files disk copy protection not works, then you can't continue the process to create the disk

also I created with powercopy original disks of magic pockets and magic boy, which have similar copy protection of adams family but in those worked perfect

I tried lethal weapon I created a disk, music and intro starts but say"illegal copy"

Last edited by Mrz; 17 September 2017 at 14:49.
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Old 17 September 2017, 15:09   #25
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WinUAE will never emulate hardware copy dongles like PowerCopy or Sybil as the supported images for writing will only be ADF or Extended ADF, neither support protections like Copylock/Speedlock/Weak Bits as Denis has pointed out, so that's why you can't make working Copylock images in WinUAE!

Utilities like Lockpick are the only way to make working images from IPF/SCP images that are copy protected with Copylock/Speedlock/Weak bits in WinUAE provided the utility supports the game! But, even an Extended ADF file still might not be able to contain the data on the IPF/SCP if it's data that can't be held in an Extended ADF format!

Is there a list of games/protections that can't be made into Extended ADF images?
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Old 17 September 2017, 16:02   #26
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I can't really remember
Maybe to make Extended ADF maybe use RawRead
To Write to real floppy use PowerCopy
Use Analysis in PowerCopy will tell you if Hardware is needed

Last edited by Retro1234; 17 September 2017 at 16:29.
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Old 17 September 2017, 16:29   #27
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Ghostbattle has no special protection, and therefore can be written back to disk. Powercopy is enough.
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Old 17 September 2017, 22:35   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryB;
Extended ADF file still might not be able to contain the data on the IPF/SCP if it's data that can't be held in an Extended ADF format!
right,extended adf format can't contain all copy protection data yet
it seems if there is an extended adf of certain game anywhere on the web it can be written back to floppy, and no special hardware is required

but I have not been successful with turrican extended adfs, it seems a high density amiga drive is needed to write those because the long tracks,
but no special hardware is required, ie an A4000 with a high density drive can write turrican disks

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryB View Post

Is there a list of games/protections that can't be made into Extended ADF images?

nope there is not such list, you can create a thread for this
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Old 17 September 2017, 23:46   #29
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you can't write back Turrican with a standard amiga drive / controller.

Standard Amiga tracks are $3178-$3200 in length. Turrican 2 tracks are $3500 long.

so no go, you need a custom floppy controller to do that.
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Old 18 September 2017, 12:22   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
you can't write back Turrican with a standard amiga drive / controller.

Standard Amiga tracks are $3178-$3200 in length. Turrican 2 tracks are $3500 long.

so no go, you need a custom floppy controller to do that.
yes you can
otherwise how do you think those turrican extended adfs were created
try the program wwarp and you will see,asks for a high density drive or sybil to write turricans disks
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Old 18 September 2017, 12:32   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrz View Post
yes you can
otherwise how do you think those turrican extended adfs were created
try the program wwarp and you will see,asks for a high density drive or sybil to write turricans disks
you can't. A regular amiga can't WRITE back on disk the extended ADF.

I made the existant working extended ADFs of Turrican I,II,III from my originals (as there was a problem with the ones made by factor 5).

a high density drive is not enough, you need something else than Paula as floppy disk controller to WRITE back on disk.

Sybil is something else. It allows to make an analogic copy of a protected disk.
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Old 18 September 2017, 13:47   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
you can't. A regular amiga can't WRITE back on disk the extended ADF.

I made the existant working extended ADFs of Turrican I,II,III from my originals (as there was a problem with the ones made by factor 5).

a high density drive is not enough, you need something else than Paula as floppy disk controller to WRITE back on disk.

Sybil is something else. It allows to make an analogic copy of a protected disk.
you can yes, I created a working extended adf from turrican 2 ipf using wwarp
if works on winuae must work on a real Amiga+ high density drive
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Old 18 September 2017, 14:13   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrz View Post
if works on winuae must work on a real Amiga+ high density drive
I would argue that is not necessarily true. (It might be)

Is WinUAE FDC emulation accurate enough to know not to do things which are impossible on a real Amiga / FDD?
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Old 18 September 2017, 14:37   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post
I would argue that is not necessarily true. (It might be)

Is WinUAE FDC emulation accurate enough to know not to do things which are impossible on a real Amiga / FDD?

well I'm not tested my self this on a real Amiga because my A1200 haven't a high density floppy drive
but Wepl says it works, and you know,Wepl is a master

Quote:
And you mention a HD drive... can these drives write longtracks? Is the DD/HD density variable on these drives?
its not variable. the controller (paula) is the same and can only write one speed. the hd drives on amiga switch to half rpm (150) when hd disk is inserted.
you can write long tracks back on a hd disk in a hd floppy, but you cannot use this disk in a dd floppy afterwards. also some games are checking the tracklength and may not work if they see that the track is eg. $6300 bytes instead the expected $3300. other protections may fail too...
some games will work, i remember turrican2 works written back this way.



http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=24366
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Old 18 September 2017, 14:43   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrz View Post
you can yes, I created a working extended adf from turrican 2 ipf using wwarp
if works on winuae must work on a real Amiga+ high density drive
Wait a sec. You're mixing three different things :

1) the ability to read a disk, protected or not,

2) the ability to WRITE a disk from a disk source

3) the use of a real amiga or an emulator

so to make it simple :

Of course, under winuae, ANYONE can make an extended ADF from an IPF.
You can parameter winuae to use a long track length than the one of a real amiga.

On a real Amiga, you can read a turrican II disk (with WWarp if you want), but you will NEVER be able to write the wwarp image file back to disk with the regular amiga disk controller.

What you did has a name, it's called imaging a disk. Imaging a disk is NOT writing back a disk from a source (HD or floppy disk).

no amiga in the world can write back turrican II disk, (neither BC kid or Turrican 3, the tracks are way too long for paula to write back).

You need for those disks a kryoflux or a supercard pro PCB to achieve that.

Emulator is a different thing from a real Amiga. You can do things with winuae that an A500, 600 or 1200 can't do.
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Old 18 September 2017, 14:51   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrz View Post
well I'm not tested my self this on a real Amiga because my A1200 haven't a high density floppy drive but Wepl says it works, and you know,Wepl is a master
Wepl knows what he is doing, but you didn't understood what he said.

I have a high density floppy drive on my own A1200. I can try all i want to write back a disk image of turrican II with it, it will never work.

Explanation : A floppy drive never defines what you can write. It's the floppy controller, and paula (the amiga floppy controller) maximum track length write is $3200. Since turrican II tracks are $3500 in length, paula chops $300 chuncks of data each time it tries to write the tracks on a fresh disk.

Quote:
its not variable. the controller (paula) is the same and can only write one speed. the hd drives on amiga switch to half rpm (150) when hd disk is inserted.
I have a 1.76mb HD drive and this doesn't work.

Quote:
you can write long tracks back on a hd disk in a hd floppy, but you cannot use this disk in a dd floppy afterwards.
I have tried long before you came on this board to write such games back on disks, and this doesn't work, plain and simple.

Quote:
some games will work, i remember turrican2 works written back this way.
If it was true, most of us would know it, and the trick would be available since a long time now.

But this doesn't work.
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Old 18 September 2017, 14:52   #37
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Its not just Wepl a few people have said it works on Real hardware so probably does...
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Old 18 September 2017, 14:53   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post
I would argue that is not necessarily true. (It might be)

Is WinUAE FDC emulation accurate enough to know not to do things which are impossible on a real Amiga / FDD?
You can set in winuae config file the track length. That's how i produce all the extended ADF of many games that were previously not available in this format.
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Old 18 September 2017, 14:54   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro1234 View Post
Its not just Wepl a few people have said it works on Real hardware so probably does...
Well i tried already, since i have an HD drive inside my A1200, and it doesn't work.
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Old 18 September 2017, 14:57   #40
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You have to use High Density disk
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